The Westerner Magazine Halloween 2018

Pennhurst makes several million dollars world without Jews, and these
a year in the fall. Around the country institutions were to create a world
there are other large asylums where the without the disabled. We tend to
same thing is happening. I think this is a desecrate the truth about what really

phenomenon of the last twenty years. occurred. These fright nights are the last
As the actual historic story recedes the indignity portrayed on these people at

urban lore develops. these asylums.

TW: This phenomenon has some I think the public has an obligation to
validity in society today, doesn’t it? As know the history and not just exploit it.

a history professor don’t you think that Because you’re right, this is a social
shifts in societal norms are valid? We phenomenon that appeals to people, but
used to put people into institutions I don’t believe you can leverage the

because of intellectual disability and misfortunes of others for commercial
today we want to have fun with that. gain.


Dennis: I think in a way that’s true. We TW: You’re right.
have the responsibility not to exploit the
Dennis: I think we have an obligation to
misfortunes of others. I recognize that
tell the truth and that’s what we’re
happens and there are historical
trying to do in the book.
parallels that are relevant, but I don’t
think we’d open up a venue like this at TW: I really appreciate your taking the
Auschwitz. time to open our eyes on the history of

the Pennhurst Asylum.
TW: No. Touche. You’ve won that point.

Dennis: Thanks for your interest.
Dennis: Yet we do open them up all
around the country here. I’ve thought a
lot about the parallel between the two.

Auschwitz was opened to create a

This interview is with country music

royalty. A singer called Bobby Bare who
BARE has been turning out hits for a lifetime. It

describes his early years with RCA to his
later recordings with Mercury and
Columbia all the way to his latest album
COUNTRY: “Bare.” He’s a singer with the ability to
touch the very depth of the listener’s
heart. Just take a listen to any of his
AN numerous hits and you’ll find yourself a


BARE fan. “Five Strong Winds,” “Detroit
INTERVIEW City,” “Constant Sorrow,” “Come

Sundown.” Pick any of his hits and find
WITH THE your next favorite singer. Let’s meet Mr.

Bobby Bare.
LEGENDARY


BOBBY BARE Great to meet you, Bobby. Are you there?



Yeah, I’m here.

You sound good!

Oh, yeah I am!


How was the fishing?

It was a little slow, but I did all right.

What’s new?


Well, let’s see. Nothing’s new. Everything
I’m doing now I’ve done many times over.
We have a new album out. We are doing a
lot of things in Nashville. We have a big
event coming up called the Outlaws and
Armadillos at the Hall of Fame.


You will be singing?

Me and a whole lot of other people too.


What did you think about recording for
RCA?

I loved every minute of it. Especially It was always the songs. Find the song

when I was working with Chet [Akins]. that you love and can’t wait to get into the
Working with Chet was a dream. studio and record. The first time I heard
Detroit City I was driving in traffic, living
What was Chet like?
in traffic. Billy Grammer recorded it
Low key. Very low key, yeah. before I did, and I heard his version on the
radio. I tied up the traffic for three
Let me ask you this one out of the blue. minutes while I listened to the greatest
Do you remember an album called song I ever heard and as soon as I got back
Constant Sorrow? to Nashville I recorded it. Not because I

thought it would be a hit record—but
I sure do. Waylon wrote that song for me.
because I loved it! It just happened to be a
Waylon Jennings wrote the title song. He
hit. Some songs are like that.
put new lyrics to it.
It won the Grammy too?
You went for a different sound with that
album too…
It won a Grammy when country music
had one category. Now they probably
It was the same musicians as usual, it just
have forty categories, but back then it was
had a little heavier beat to it. The
just one category. A Grammy wasn’t a big
drummer called it a blues beat, but it was
deal back then. In fact—I didn’t even
really double time like I did with Four
know what it was. (Laughs).
Strong Winds. It was just a little heavier.

But you collected it anyway.

I got it. I still got it. It’s been broken a few
times, but I’ve got it. It’s a big deal now. It

wasn’t even televised back then.

Did you collect it yourself?

Yes! I went to the ceremony. It was my
very first date with my wife back in 1964.
The first date I ever took her on. We’ve

been married fifty-three years. That’s how
long it’s been. I sat at the RCA table with
Lorne Greene, Duane Eddy, who had his
child bride with him. (She later became
Jessie Colter after she divorced Duane
Eddy she married Waylon.) She was just a

teenager back then. Absolutely gorgeous.
How did you approach making an
album? Did you pick the songs?

Lorne Greene had a record out at that with someone else’s name on it but

time, didn’t he? everyone knew it was me because my
voice was so highly identifiable. It was a
He had a record out called Ringo. It was
huge rock and roll hit, oh yeah! It wasn’t
written by Don Robertson who was also
planned that way at all. It went to number
there that night.
two on Billboard here. They need to put

What did RCA do that made you such a me in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I’m
big star? What did they do right? in the Country Music Hall of Fame—now
they need to put me in the Rock and Roll
They promoted me to a younger audience. Hall of Fame.
Most of those records were pop hits first
and then became country hits even though I never thought you were strictly country
they were country songs. They put that anyway—

RCA juice behind it. They serviced the
Well I was living in California but I
pop stations and the country stations, plus
always considered myself a country
in the spring of 1964 they sent me, Chet,
singer. That’s why I moved from
Jim Reeves and the Anita Kerr Singers to
California because people were thinking
Europe on a promotional tour. We hit
of me as a semi-pop singer. I also wanted
every major city in Europe and it made
to get married and have kids and I didn’t
big stars out of me and Jim Reeves. They
want them raised in Los Angeles so we
were willing to spend money promoting
moved back here and I joined the Grand
us.
Old Opry.
Do you think record companies today are
Well, I’m glad you did. Let me ask you
as willing to spend on new artists as they
this—how much control did you have
were?
over the material you recorded? Did they

The answer to that is yes. They spend a lot pick it or did you get to pick it?
of money. They shouldn’t be called record
Well, Chet was so low key he wouldn’t
companies anymore, though—they should
say no to anything. He would say, “Well, I
be called ‘investors.’ Records don’t even
don’t know if that’s good for you or not.”
exist much anymore as we knew them. It’s
We were often very close on picking
all on the internet. When they sign an
material. I would often turn up with a lot
artist now, they get a piece of everything.
of records to record and he would have
They’ve got to spend a million dollars
the same records lined up. We were very
now to create an act. It’s a gamble.
close. I felt everything was the way it
You started as a rock and roll singer with ought to be. Chet saw me the way I saw
All American Boy, right? me, and it worked. If me, or any of his
artists, said they wanted to record a song
That was a re-write of “Country Talking he would normally let them go ahead and
Blues.” It was a freaky deal. It wound up

record it—but if Chet didn’t like it—it with Columbia. The reason I didn’t put it

probably was a flawed recording. out was because Billy Sherill, who was
notorious for picking hits, didn’t like it. I
did a good version of it.

















He had a great stable of artists.

Yeah, he had a lot of them.


How did you enjoy working at Mercury?

I loved the working with Jerry Kennedy.
You ended up with a Eurovision song
We saw eye to eye with songs. I did a lot
too, didn’t you?
of Kristopherson songs and a lot of Tom T.
Hall songs, a lot of Billy Joe Shaver songs. Oh, yeah! A friend of mine over there

I was heavily into good writers. Jerry gave wanted me to do a duet with him for
me the freedom to do that because he Eurovision. I was in Florida fishing and he
knew they were all great songs. The first asked me to fly over to Oslo and made it
one I recorded was “That’s How I Got to sound like a three-day trip. I had written a
Memphis” which was a Tom T. Hall song. song called “Things Change” and we did
Then I did “Come Sundown” from the duet, but I didn’t know what

Kristopherson. Eurovision was. I got over there and
found out it was a big deal. Peter and I
Don’t forget “Sylvia’s Mother” too.
sang that song on two TV shows. You
won the first one you went to the final and
Loved that song. That’s what I did for the
then if you won the final you’d get to go
next ten years—Kris, Tom T. and Billy Joe.
to Russia. I had no idea. We did the first
You can’t go wrong if you’ve got a good
TV show and won it. Then we went to
song.
final which was in Oslo and the press had
Were there any records that you were picked up on the song. The press were
offered but you skipped and someone everywhere—it was like we had won the
else had a hit with the song? Pulitzer prize. We did the final and I told

them, “If we win this one and go to Russia
I recorded “The Gambler” about two
we will probably win it all. There were
years before Kenny Rogers when I was

two big stars behind the iron curtain—me You toured with Jim Reeves?

and Johnny Cash.” What I didn’t realize is
Oh yeah, I was friends with him. I was in
that I’d have to be there another week and
the hospital with mumps the day that his
I was hoping we wouldn’t win because I
plane went down. I got a get-well card
didn’t want to go to Russia. I wanted to go
from him that very same day. We hadn’t
back to Florida and my fishing. We came
been back from that promotional tour in
third or second in the end. The guy that
Europe long when he died. We got back at
won it went to Russia and came last. It
the end of April and I think it was June
must have ended his career—he was such
when he died.
a nice guy I still remember him.
That must have been sad.
You just didn’t know what you were
getting yourself into. For all involved.


Not at all. But a lot of careers have been Did you ever meet Slim Whitman?
started by Eurovision.
Kind of a quiet guy. He had a little speech
What made you go back into the studio impediment thing. He didn’t talk a lot.
to make your new album?
He became huge in England. I think he
I heard all these really good songs and I was bigger here than in the States.
wanted to go in and record them. That’s
what I do and have always done. That’s He was. He had such a wonderful voice.
what I’ll continue to do as long as I’m He was so great. “Indian Love Call.” Had
kicking it. I loved the song “I Drank.” The his own sound with that steel guitar.
one I wrote called “Things Change” that
we did on Eurovision. The one I wrote

with Roy Clark called “Trophy Girl.” It’s
just a good bunch of songs and I’m glad I
recorded them.

If a young guy came to you and asked
you to pick one of your records for him

to hear—which one would you pick?

Probably “Detroit City.” I’d had hits And now you’re touring with Bill
before that but that’s the one that changed Anderson—looking forward to it?
my life. That’s when people started
Bill and I are real good friends. No
wondering who was singing that song.
problems. It’s a pleasure to work with Bill.
That opened the doors up for a big career
I think we deserve that in our later years.
that thank God wound up in the Country
Music Hall of Fame.

Well, I won’t keep you any longer, Mr. Thank you very much.

Bare. I wish you the best with your new

shows and your new record.



THE LATEST BOBBY BARE ALBUM!
















































Bobby Bare scored nearly five dozen top 40 hits from 1962 to 1983. In a laconic vocal style
that embraces both wry country wit and poignant folk storytelling, his literate, cross-cultural
appeal has earned him the sobriquet "the Springsteen of country." On this new project,
"Things Change," Bare enlists vocal help from one of the brightest new flames in country
music, Chris Stapleton, adding vocals on "Detroit City," one of Bare's biggest hits, and a new
song titled "I Drink." Grab your copy of his new album by clicking here!

THE creativity, the drive and ambition of the

pioneers who made the hit records, the
classics, the legends and many of the songs
you hear on the radio. Let’s meet Harvey
MAN Cooper – the promoter.






WHO







MADE






Harvey Cooper during his early years.
THE Harvey, thank you for agreeing to this


interview.


MAGIC It’s my pleasure!

I have to start by asking you about

your work on the Star Wars soundtrack
for 20 Century records. What
th
AN INTERVIEW WITH
happened there?
RECORD PROMOTIONS
I made decisions on all 20th movies for
EXPERT HARVEY COOPER
the soundtracks. One day I get a call

from the president of the film division,
Harvey Cooper is one of the most interesting
Alan Ladd, Jr., about a film and I saw it.
individuals you’re ever likely to meet. A
He asked me if I wanted the soundtrack.
man who witnessed music history from the
The overall production of the
very start to its sad demise. Demise? Well,
soundtrack was symphonic and oddly it
anyone who has any knowledge of the
fit. Somebody wanted to discard the
business knows that it’s not the same
movie but didn’t think it had anything
anymore. This interview is about the
and wanted us to pick up the option. I

thought it was going to be a big picture Frank Ifield and the Beatles on one
with children. That was Star Wars. I album called “Jolly What?”
handed John Williams his first triple
I promoted all of that. The first time I
platinum album. That was pure luck.
had a Beatles record called Please,
Universal thought they had a loser.
Please Me. I got it played on the radio
th
Did 20 Century do “The Story of Star and we sold 3,500 records and then it
Wars” too? That was a great concept— came—that blast from England—and I
narration and music to tell the story of took it back out and it sold 300,000
the first film. records. The same record. I used to have

acetates of the Beatles album at my
Yes. That was my idea. It went gold too.
house. Those acetates now go for
We thought that we could get away
$250,000 each. I think it’s in my mother’s
with it and people asked about it. So, we
old house in the basement someplace.
did it.
I’m not a person who saves things. I was
awarded 100 gold records that I never

accepted. I told them, “The day you
actually have gold bullion on them, I’ll
accept it. When you spray it gold and

give it to a CPA, that’s when it loses its
charm.”

That album that you put Frank Ifield

with the Beatles on one album
though… That’s creative.


We had hits with Frank Ifield. “I

Remember You” was a big one.
“Jolly What” was the album that put Anything went.

the Beatles and Frank Ifield together on
The Vee-Jay stuff is fascinating, isn’t
an album. It is now a collectors item.
it? The material they managed to get

Let me take you back a few years. In and sell from all over the place.
your earlier career you worked for Vee-
Hit after hit, after hit, after hit. I helped
Jay, correct? The company who put
break the Four Seasons with Bob Crewe
the producer. Bob Crewe. I met him in

the early 60’s. He looked like a guy who RCA always had [Elvis] Presley, our
was dressed a hundred years ahead of front guy, and classy things that were
his times. “Harvey… I have twelve considered the best of the best. We were
hundred dollars in my pocket. The way the ones who first had HAIR when it

I live, that’ll take us to dinner so this was shown at the Cheetah lounge before
better be a hit record.” it came to Broadway. We had the Sound

of Music, The Boston Pops all those
That was Sherry by the Four Seasons.
great people. RCA prided themselves
We had four top forty stations playing it with the best.

and it busted all over the place. Two
You had a great country division, too.
weeks after his visit he sends me a
That was one of the strengths of the
leather case with my name in gold
company, right?
printed on it. I open it up and there’s a
check for a thousand dollars in it. In Yes, yes, we did. Chet Atkins headed it.
1962 that was a lot of money. We have He was a master guitar player and an

two more hits and they’re all on Vee- interesting guy. I remember at one time
Jay. The first three big hits were on Vee- I used to visit him while I was the
Jay. The second hit was called “Walk national promotion director of radio and

Like A Man” I’m at my apartment and a artist relations. I used to visit him from
delivery guy comes with a giant plant time to time in Nashville. He just had an
from Bob. He turned me into this greedy album out that I loved. He said, “You
person. I dug up the plant because I think I’m pretty good?” I said, “Yeah, I

thought there might be money in there. I do!” He said, “Meet me tomorrow at
remember thinking, “What has this nine o’clock at the studio.” I went to the

business turned me into?” He was a studio to meet him. He had an old
great producer. We all ended up in Los Cadillac and he said, “Come with me.”
Angeles and I saw him all the time. We drove an hour and a half (or forty-
five minutes, something like that), and
Later you worked for RCA. Why do
we ended up in the rolling hills and
you think RCA was such a powerful
mountains. We came to this
force on the market?
amphitheatre and I see these people
I think the name was so powerful they streaming down with banjos and guitars
tried to feature the greatest artists they and they were playing. He says, “Do

could in every field. The class artist. you get it?” “Get what?” “DO YOU GET

IT? Do you notice how fast they are used to work with the Colonel when I
playing? They copy that from records was the regional guy in Los Angeles. He
that have been sped up. They don’t was a character. He was a guy who
know any different!” I’m saying to liked to make people crawl. I used to

myself, “Why isn’t there someone here have to go to his house in Palm Springs
to authenticate what I’m seeing!” Just and play nicely. I only did it once

crazy. I miss that business to this day. because I didn’t like the way he talked
You remember the series Mad Men? This to me and let him know about it. He
was Mad Men on steroids! could have fired me – but he didn’t. I
think he respected that I had some self-
You must have woken up wondering
respect. When we were at the Hilton
what would happen every single day--
when Elvis opened, I am telling you that

I didn’t even know how much money I everyone who ever played Vegas was at
made! I thought it was much, much that show—Sinatra, Dean Martin, all the
better than working—you kidding me! comedians and so on. They were so sure
that this Rock and Roll guy was going to

fail. It was a festive atmosphere. I’m not
gay, but you can’t take your eyes off this
guy Presley—he was really that good

looking and when they announced his
name “Ladies and gentlemen, ELVIS
PRESLEY,” and the lights are flashing

but he didn’t come onto the stage. He
came from the rear. Mouths were
gaping open. They witnessed something

they’d never seen before. This guy was
the KING of Rock and Roll. They saw it
for the first time and he wasted them
You must have really seen some
with his performance. He was one of the
interesting things that went on behind
great singers of our time. The women
the scenes.
would lose it.

I witnessed moments of history. When
The next day Colonel made everyone
Elvis made his comeback in Vegas—
stay over—a ploy to show his power—
they flew the whole staff in for that. I
he went to one of those quick printers

and printed up these certificates with Just jumping back for a moment. How
ribbon that he would give out to the do you feel about Colonel Parker,
people who attended the show. Elvis’ manager and one of the first rock
Anyway, Norman Racusin who was the star managers, looking back from

president of RCA was in the room. He today?
has a little diamond pin and the Colonel
If you look back at his history—he was a
comes up to him and asks what it was.
guy who jumped ship. He was an illegal
“That’s my anniversary pin for twenty-
immigrant. I don’t know if people know
five years with RCA,” Racusin
about the things he did. He was Eddy
explained. “Hey,” the Colonel said. “Me
Arnold’s manager when Eddy was just
and my boy have been here for twenty-
starting, and he was one of the biggest
five years. How come I don’t have a pin,
country and western stars ever. In the
Norman?” Norman explained it was for
1950’s I got to tell you he owned a
employees, but the Colonel was
product called Hadacol. It was an elixir.
insistent. Racusin excused himself, left
Snake oil! He sold it to a big firm and
the room and came back to tell the
they got caught because there was
Colonel that the pin would be with him
alcohol in the thing. You can’t make this
within a few days. I knew then that
up. A barker in the carnival. He had that
rules didn’t matter. It was just great
kind of appeal. He wasn’t kidding
though. History. It was different to
around and the deal with Elvis was a
anything I’d ever witnessed before but
handshake. No paper.
that went on all the time.

The other thing is he had instincts. I
But there was always room for more
went to his home and he had a whole
talent. It wasn’t just a few people at the
war room. He ran Elvis’ career like it
time making the hits and all the
was a war—like he was a general in a
wanna-bes.
war. Finely tuned fan clubs in every
Exactly. There was Elvis Presley and state with a president. He knew each

then there was the next guy coming up. president, as did Elvis. Elvis used to
An even playing field in the 60’s all the stay in their homes, he would buy them

way to 1979. You can mark it with a Cadillacs, they in turn put out the word
stick when it stopped being an even in their states and regions every time
playing field. that Elvis had a movie or a record out. It
was the strongest thing I’ve ever seen.

He had certain rules that proved true, What happened between those days
for example, he didn’t want Elvis to do and today that made the industry so
television—he felt that television was a uneven?
killer and that proved true. He did some
The key was that it was a level playing
great things. I didn’t like the man, but
field. If you had a good record, you’d
he did some great things.
get it played on the radio—but you’d

get it distributed just like a major record
company. Back then they had
independent companies that were

almost the equal of major record
companies—companies like A&M
records, Atlantic Records, Motown

Records—it goes on and on. They had a
system. An independent system. There

were a series of independent
Here’s a question. Was it easier to sell distribution companies in regions all
catalogue material like reissues and over the country—usually based in
greatest hits, or regular albums? major cities. In these distributors they

had all the functions of a record
The company placed certain pressure on
company on a regional basis with the
certain items for various reasons. They
exception of actually creating a product.
spent tons of money on movie
Sales people, marketing people and
soundtracks. A lot of print ads, a lot of
administrators. These companies would
radio ads, a lot of TV ads. They spent a
assume the function of promotion,
lot of money on things they were sure
getting the record played on the radio,
were winners. If we had any indication
and selling the record. We had all kinds
they would go to war with it. They
of stores—mom and pop stores, one
knew they’d get the money back. We
stops—we would visit everyone and sell
had two albums of HAIR—the original
every genre of music. If you had a good
one from the Cheetah lounge and the
record, the major record companies
second album from Broadway. It was
would push it and if you were a
huge! The show is still going on.
talented person they believed in, they’d
push the second record, the third and

the fourth and so on. That’s not how it is

today. Back then a jock would get on the It was a shame. I lived it. I have
radio and hit the record they liked three performed every function—promotion,
or four times in an hour. “Did you hear sales guy, administrator. I represented
that! This is going to be a smash hit!” Motown. I had about twenty labels I

They’ve taken that away from the represented in that area. I’m from
artists. In the late 70’s the independent Detroit originally and one of my best

companies started to leave the fold of friends was a vice president over there. I
independent distribution, which was the was there almost every day. He used to
equal of major distribution, but they take a lot of their artists to record hops. I
went with the majors because they were knew the artists too and knew the

willing to pay more—and quicker. They operation very well. It taught me
all started to leave the fold and they left everything I needed to know about the
them without the product they could record business.

operate with, so they died.
How does a record company actually
So the distributors actually managed to develop talent?

kill their own industry?
First of all, you have to have a good
I tried to stop that in 1980. I took a product—it’s everything. These people

lawyer and advertising guy, and I had a had two studios at Motown. It’s now a
plan. I said to the distributors at the museum but at the time it was going
convention, “You don’t have to lose out 24/7. It was preparing people for live
here. Get together, give me some money performances once the records made it.

and we will buy into four catalogue But if they felt that the performances
selling acts and if we had stars we could weren’t strong enough, but the material

compete.” Nine months we had was good—they’d go right back in and
meetings and then the egos started, and re-record it until they’d got it. That’s the
they died. secret to A&R. They had a great product
and learned how to process it through
It’s a shame they couldn’t see the
distributors. It was a development. An
writing on the wall and save
artist development situation. As you
themselves. They really should have
went region to region, different singers
taken a step back and listened to what
were hot. The boy singers from Philly,
you had to say.
the acid rock from San Francisco. They
created the same talent development.

All the good musicians, producers, You don’t even have to perform live
places to prepare the artists for live anymore. Use whatever it is that you
performances. You have to have the have to create impact.” You have to
artist development going for you or it have this brain trust and create images

doesn’t work. that are bigger than the business. They
don’t do that anymore.
Creating and maintaining product and

artists is a bigger task than people may It does seem that the industry has lost
realize. Do you think modern all of it’s magic—they don’t hype
technology has made it easier? things like they used to.


Today it’s very interesting. It’s different That’s exactly right. The consumer
but you can create your own version. knows it all. They tell you exactly who

Technology can kill you—but it can help you are, exactly how deep it goes and
you if you know how to use it properly. how long it goes if you know how to
I told a lot of my guys, and I’m an old listen. In 1968 I was working for RCA.

guy now, “You can do it yourself if you Do you remember Jose Feliciano?
have some resources—you’ve got
Yeah!
people who know the social media

business, you have people that can He was very big at the time. He was a
create videos. What is a video? A video folk singer and we worked with him for
gives you exposure. five or ten years with the coffee house

shit and his bad jokes. He was pretty
good. We did a couple of R&B things
with him and he was playing Vegas.

The Detroit Tigers won the American
League and were hosting the World
Series at that time. The Tigers’

broadcaster was a friend of mine and he
wanted to put together some artists for
the anthem during the home game. I

suggested Jose. Ernie was an amateur
Jose Feliciano performs the national
songwriter and loved the idea. I
anthem.
suggested we could fly Jose in and out
just to do it. Jose said he would love to

do it. “I have a new version,” he said. was no getting around. There were legit
“Wonderful!” I said. We were on the papers. A tracking sheet of new music
field and Jose performed the National called “The Gavin Report.” Nobody
Anthem—the soul version of the messed with him—Bill Gavin. No

National Anthem. We were in Detroit advertising in his magazine and people
and the audience were throwing shit believed in him.

into the field. “How did I do?” Jose
Billboards?
asked. “Keep walking,” I said. We
almost got fired. It was videoed, and Yes. I think they’re effective. Too
you’d say it was very mild now but at expensive now but very effective.

the time the people were so upset you Millions of people driving to a certain
have no idea. Forty years later they’re place. If it’s placed in the right place it
honored by the whole thing. There’s a could be very, very effective.

monument at the stadium honoring it. It
And radio was very important—
wouldn’t even strike you as being this
crazy, radical thing now. Well. Like I say, you can create your

own exposure. In the first phase of any
What do you think were the
marketing campaign is to find out if it’s
effectiveness of print ads—did they
legit or not. You have to get enough
have any impact?
exposure to find out of the product can
Yes. I think in serious publications like sell—if it can’t, then you’re wasting
Rolling Stone it was very effective. your money. Is this a viable piece? Let’s

People saw Rolling Stone as a serious view the results. It depends on how
magazine and responded accordingly. deep you go and how much resource

you have. If you don’t have a lot but
How about publications like Billboard
you know the norm, anything over the
magazine?
norm tells you something. But you have

Billboard was the bible if you wanted to to know how to read it.
find out if something was really a hit.
Did every album released by RCA get
You had to go to the top ten. Everything
promoted? Or did you allow some to
else was bullshit. A lot of companies put
just do what they were going to do?
pressure on them. A lot of stuff I don’t
Did you spend money on everything?
want to get into that I’m trying to forget.

The top ten was the top ten, and there

Like I say in the sixties and the seventies If you got the timing right, you could
the leader was a single record. That was keep reselling the same material?
the test market. Now, you could put out
Yes. The catalogue is the strength of
a single whether you were a major
your company. Catalogue is the secret,
artist, or a new independent artist. If
there’s no question.
you had a good record and you had

representation you could get major If something in the catalogue started
airplay, and a distribution deal. In six selling would you look to release a
weeks if you had airplay and records brand new album?
out there in the stores—you knew damn
A lot of events could take place to tell
well what you had at the end of two or
you that. For example, covers. Someone
three months. If it was good you knew
covers a tune that was a hit on one of
you had an album. The albums that sold
your albums—that could rekindle it
the best were the ones that had more
again.
than one hit on them. There were a lot of
fillers that didn’t do well. Always looking for opportunities to

resell the records?
One hit record with nine filler tracks
didn’t sell so well? That’s what makes classics.


It sold some on the strength of the hit How did you find working against a
record, but it didn’t do as well as an company like Columbia?
album with several hits.
Columbia was our arch rival. We were
You’d expect higher sales for a greatest considered major record companies at
hits album than a regular album? the time and they were our rivals. It was

like Los Angeles playing the San
Exactly. All you had to do was make
Francisco Giants. We hated each other.
sure people could find out about it.
It was very competitive. At the same
How often could you reissue without time, it was almost a family if you were
wearing out the market? on the road. Strange thing. It was a

strange phenomenon.
You’ve got to be careful there. If it came
too soon it wouldn’t do well. You had to Was RCA the strongest catalogue
know exactly the timing. company?

No. Columbia was. I hate to say this we chose to promote him locally
because I was an RCA guy, but wherever we could.
Columbia was the better company.
Well thank you for your time, Harvey.

Why? It’s been a pleasure talking to you.

They were better marketeers. I think Likewise.

RCA wasn’t as serious about their

record company. It was a very minor
part of their corporation.


What do you believe truly pushes
records and makes a hit?


Music mirrors the times. Every once in a
while somebody comes along that is
talented, writes great songs and is a

singer. Adele comes along and sells 100
million records and you can’t get into
her concerts. That’s the goods. You

don’t have to be a genius to figure out
she’s in the hearts and minds of those
little girls.


You worked with our future cover star,
didn’t you—Peter Nero?


Yes. He was one of our artists. He was a
gentleman. He was very easy to work
with. I worked with RCA at the time.

We worked with our artists very closely.
I worked several regions as the country

as the artist relations guy. Peter was one
of our artists for many, many years and
wherever he went, our representatives
used to take him around to the local

media. He used to give us his time and

HALLOWEEN the air itself is clear and crisp. I enjoy

living life in a Fairy Tale way. Through
INSPIRATION my artwork I bring these stories alive.

Sometimes I illustrate famous tales, and
sometimes I write my own. I will

by Judy Mastrangelo always retain my love for fantasy
literature and other art forms. Creating
fantasies in my paintings brings me
great joy. When I do a painting, I feel as
if I can actually walk into the scene that
I create and live there as long as I wish.



















Many things inspire me to create. I find
this Autumn season to be very exciting.
It brings to my mind wonderful feelings
of imagination, which have been with
me since my youth. Halloween was one
of my favorite holidays, since we could

dress up in fanciful costumes and
“become” any Magical being we wished
to be. I find that putting myself in the My painting entitled “DOORWAY TO
mindset of looking at the world through FAIRYLAND” symbolizes my desire to

a child’s eyes is such a delightful search for that magic land in a secret
experience. It keeps you young and place. It also shows how, in my way, I’m
forever excited about the Magic of life. constantly searching for upliftment to a
spiritual world. I find this through my
The world is now changing into art. This painting is in my set of four
amazingly colorful landscape. The trees Kindle eBooks that I call “PORTAL TO
show their brilliantly colorful dress, and THE LAND OF FAE.” This particular

one is in the book entitled “MYSTICAL
FAIRIES.” Coming soon are a series of
paperback books of this series, to be
published by “IMAGINATION
BOOKS”, a new imprint of DSP.

Here is how I describe my painting
Doorway to Fairyland:

Forest Fairy Wandering,
near Glade and Wood and Stream,
searching for the Magic World
seen deep within her Dreams.

At last her Vision manifests ~ It is an
Ancient Tree!
So when she nears, a Door reveals ~
the FairyLand she yearns to see!
I’m a big opera buff, and one of my
And then a Spell transforms her, favorite operas is “Hansel and Gretel”
when she taps the Azure Stone. composed by 19th century composer
She becomes a Celestial Being, Engelbert Humperdinck in 1893. There
entering the Realm she will call Home. is a delightful 1954 animated film made
of this opera with stop motion animated
I have a deep love of fairy tales, as I figures. It inspired me to create some
mentioned. They are also beloved by artwork based on this opera.
people of all ages in literature, films, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansel_an
music, painting, etc. One fairy tale d_Gretel:_An_Opera_Fantasy
comes to mind for this special time of
year. It is the famous Hansel and Gretel I have illustrated several paintings from
by the Brothers Grimm. this famous story: “HANSEL AND
GRETEL LOST IN THE WOODS” and
“THE GINGERBREAD WITCH” as you
see here. I hope you enjoy these
pictures as befitting this time of year.

As mentioned, I am having several
books coming out soon in paperback.
And, of course, Halloween wouldn’t be
My first one is already out. It is a
complete without wizards to go along
greyscale coloring book for every age of
with witches. My favorite wizard is
coloring enthusiasts entitled
Merlin. I find him a fascinating
“FANTASTIC CREATURES TO
character in the Arthurian legends. I
COLOR”:
truly enjoy movies with this theme, my
https://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-
very favorite being “Excalibur”:
Creatures-Color-Coloring-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_
Enthusiast/dp/1979616639
(film). I feel that Nico Williamson was

an extremely magical and mysterious
It includes many amazing creatures to
Merlin, the best I’ve ever seen
color ~ great for this imaginative season
portrayed. Here is a painting I’ve done
of the year! Here is a picture of the
of “MERLIN AND THE BOY
cover:
ARTHUR.”

While you’re there, please sign up for

my Newsletter to discover what’s

happening in my Magical world:
http://judymastrangelo.com/newsletter/


Enjoy this wonderful season, which is
one of my favorite times of year! Happy
Halloween!












I speak about my painting techniques in
my ebook “PAINTING FAIRIES AND
OTHER FANTASIES.” I think you will
find it interesting. In it there are also
some downloadable tutorials which are
very helpful.
https://judymastrangelo.com/books-
2/painting-fairies-other-fantasies/

You can get an idea of my current books
in print on my website book page:

https://judymastrangelo.com/portfolio/b
ooks/



To find out more about my artwork

please visit my website at:
www.judymastrangelo.com


And please check out my Shop Page:
https://judymastrangelo.com/portfolio/s
hop/

THE HITS, interest in the record business. We’ve all
read about recording artists and hit authors,
but how often do you get to hear the
THE thoughts of a true creative—the man, or
woman, sitting in the recording booth
directing those hit records you hear on the
MISSES radio? This is your chance. Meet John

Florez—I saw several great videos from
John on YouTube before we approached him
AND THE for this interview. You can find those videos

here. John has recorded with some of the
great acts of our time. From the Hues
RECORD Corporation through to the legendary

Johnny Mathis. Let’s find out how those

BUSINESS gold records were made from a man who
knows…

So tell me, how did you get your start?
AN INTERVIEW WITH I, as a senior at Arizona State University,

HIT RECORD produced local acts in my spare time. I was a
communications major. But I had more fun
PRODUCER JOHN in the studio. What had happened is that my

FLOREZ band kicked me out on one tune. They asked
me to sit it out in the control room. That was
a lightbulb moment because as soon as I sat
down in the control room, I knew that was
where I wanted to be. The second they
kicked me out of the studio and put me next
to the engineer in the control room – that
was the moment of truth.

I had produced a local artist who went to
RCA New York to present his record to Don
Burkhimer, who was head of A&R [Artists
and Repetoire] for RCA on the East Coast.
When he came back, I asked the artist if he
had a deal. He said, “No... but he wants to
talk to you. He wants to know who the


This interview should prove to be young guy is who is making this stuff!”
fascinating for any of you who have an So, they obviously liked what they heard?

They must have. I called him, and he said, psychic who was reading questions
“John, you don’t know me. I’m Don blindfolded that everyone had submitted for
Burkhimer.” Don is the one who would him to answer. The band was getting ready
eventually give me the Hues Corporation to go back on stage when the psychic said,
and “Rock the Boat.” “John! Everything is all right with Sy. It’ll
take longer than you expected.”
Don said he wanted me to called Joe
Reisman, who was head of A&R in Los That’s Seymour Heller, Liberace’s manager,
Angeles for the West Coast. I didn’t, as I who had, in fact, offered me a job in LA.
wasn’t ready. It was flattering, but I just Nobody knew that. The next time psychic
wasn’t ready. I ended up recording rhythm Doctor Richard Ireland who became quite
tracks for a local artist from Phoenix in LA. famous submitted a question, I asked him
Dan Berrett was a contractor of musicians about the job. He said, “Forget Sy. You’re
who you could hire, for example, if you going to be working for a major label in LA
nd
wanted a string section or horns. I called for two older guys. It’ll be October 22 of
nd
him and told him I needed a rhythm section this year.” I started September 22 of that
in LA. The next day after the session he year. Once I was hired, I called Doctor
called me and said, “I like the way you work Ireland in Phoenix and I said, “You said
nd
with musicians and artists, so I’d like to take October 22 !” He replied. “John, what do
you over to meet Joe Reisman at RCA.” The you want?”
very guy I didn’t call.
What was that first year at a major label
How did it go with Joe Reisman? like RCA like?

When we sat down, Joe Reisman opened his “We will give you one year,” Joe Reisman
desk drawer and said, “Here… you’re said. He was getting very antsy before I
number two on our list. Weren’t you found Friends of Distinction. That’s what
supposed to call me?” I asked him who got me going.
number one on his list was and he said,
“David Gates.” That’s the guy who would RCA didn’t give you artists. You had to
eventually become the lead singer for Bread. find your own?
“Joe, why wouldn’t you hire David? He’s Everybody else was set. The artists were
experienced.” “John,” Joe said, “David covered. I was lucky enough to be given
wants a salary to match his experience and I leeway to choose an artist. The other act that
want you to work for next to nothing.” So, I I had found was unhappy and signed to
quit college in the last year and ended up Columbia. They were called The Spiral
working as a staff producer at RCA. Staircase. This was before they scored their

first hit, “I Love You More Today Than
Now, there’s a cute story that goes along
with all of this. There was a famous psychic Yesterday.” In fact, Friends of Distinction
here in Arizona at that time. I was standing had “Grazing in the Grass” moving up the
in the back of the club, watching this charts at the same time The Spiral Staircase

had “I Love You More Today Than Do you think RCA was a company
Yesterday” climbing. Joe Reisman said you struggling to keep up with the times?
either try to get them away from Columbia
or you can have this new black act we Historically, yes. At the time, none of us had
signed. You can’t have both. Pick one. They a clue. Except for a rock artist who came in
teased you with, “If you keep having hits, and said, “Isn’t there anyone here on the
we’ll let you do an Elvis cut,” but I never West Coast who listens to this stuff?” I
saw that happen. I think that was just a line. found a group called Five Flights Up who
I remember at the time, the only one I would should have been much larger than they
have been interested in would have been were. I discovered them during my last
John Denver who was an unknown artist at month at RCA. Willie Hutch or Friends of
the time who was having trouble having a Distinction sent them to me. I don’t
hit. remember which. Morally I should have
stayed at RCA and produced them because I
I got pegged as the white boy who made found them while I was a paid employee of
mokomix music. I watered down black the label. It didn’t even occur to me then to
talent to make them go pop. That’s how I do that then. They ended up with a hit. Bell
ended up with Willie Hutch who had a great Records offered me $36,000 a year to be
career at Motown later on. their only producer on the West Coast and a
three percent royalty, which was four times
Did RCA want to move albums or what RCA was paying, so I moved there.
singles?
How did things go at Bell?
I think they’d have liked to have sold
albums—but they were after hit singles. Well, I had this great deal but no hits. I had
Three minutes of cute and catchy. Eddie two singles that the head of promotion there,
Rosenblatt who became president of Geffen Steve Whack, said he wished he had been
and had an illustrious career said in the mid able to promote better. He wanted to drive
70’s, “John, you’d already be retired if those home. Motown wanted to hire me, so I
you’d produced your hits for us. We sell decided to go there. We signed a contract
albums. No matter what the act is, we sell and toasted to my fully negotiated deal as a
albums. All you did was sell singles.” On record producer. The next morning my
my first two gold records, which were attorney called and said, “Who is Bob
“Grazing in the Grass” and “Going in Cullen at Motown?” I said, “He’s the guy
Circles,” my total royalties were around who hired me.” My attorney explained that
$20,000 for two gold records. People were he had been fired overnight and that they no
making excellent royalty rates, but we were longer wanted me. Don Birkheimer called
making much less at RCA. It was hard for around that period of time and asked me
RCA to keep hitmaking producers because how the big contract was going at Bell. “I
they paid so low. have great numbers—great salary, great
royalty and no hits,” I told him. “Well, I had
an act called the Hues Corporation… go

listen to them rehearse. If you like them, I’ll than that, it was a stiff. Nobody would play
sign them.” So, I went and listened to them it.
singing around the piano and I said, “I hate
this song you like called ‘Rock the Boat’ but Is it common for a record to lay around
I have a song I wanted to do with the doing nothing and take off all of a
Friends of Distinction called ‘Freedom for sudden?
the Stallion.’ If you let me cut this song with Well very similarly it happened to “Grazing
them, I’ll cut your ‘Rock The Boat.’” He in the Grass” by Friends of Distinction.
agreed and “Freedom for the Stallion” Nobody played it for months until Pat
turned out just great and “Rock The Boat” is McMahon, a program director for KRIZ
awful. It’s unlistenable. I wish I had a copy who a friend of mine, and Billboard’s radio
of the original recording with Ron Tutt. It station program director of the year said he
was terrible. would take a chance on the record. He broke
it. If he hadn’t, I would have been fired.
How did you end up with the giant hit
that became “Rock the Boat?” What happened next to Hues

Corporation?
“Freedom for the Stallion” started going up
the charts and white radio is playing it. Well, Wally said that he had the pulse of the
Black radio won’t play it because it’s too group and I didn’t, so he wanted to make
white. Well, Hues Corporation had some more records like “Rock The Boat.” I didn’t,
clout with the label and wanted to go back so I quit. He just wanted to feed the hit
into the studio to recut “Rock The Boat.” I machine and I wanted to make interesting
said, “Over my dead body. I hate it.” Well music.
Don Berkheimer convinced me to go back
down and we came up with a new What was the difference between working
arrangement using a new rhythm section and at RCA and Bell?
an arrangement from Tom Sellers. I The music center of the world studios at
remember hugging their manager, Wally RCA was the lobby of the RCA building.
Holmes, in the studio and saying, “Will you That was the melting pot. You had all the
listen to that?” when we heard the final cut.
He said, “I told you,” to which I replied, “It phones, so musicians could call their brokers
proves you can put a beat to almost anything and find out where they were working.
and it’ll sound decent.” I still wouldn’t Musicians and artists were all coming in and
out all the time, hanging out with each other.
concede. It was a total bomb and didn’t do There was a sense of vitality. Bell was a
anything for several months until a nightclub three-person office. Harvey Cooper on
in New Jersey started playing it off the promotion, John Rosinger who was a
album. The first major station to pick up the
record was WABC in New York, which is promotion man in charge of the office, and I
the biggest in the nation. It all came from the was the staff producer. The three of us.
record being played in a dance club. Other While we were there a very, very talented
agent called Wally Amos from William

Morris came in and confided in me, “I’m How do you manage artists in the studio?
quitting the business. I got these chocolate
chip cookies that I take around the labels. Some come in prepared and do their thing.
Everyone loves them so much. I think I’m When I left the music business I went to
going into the cookie business. We’re going career counselling in LA and it all came
to call it Famous Amos.” I said, “Why down to me becoming a therapist. “What in
would you want to do that? You’re so good the hell do you think I’ve been doing all
at this!” John ended up working with him. these years?” I said. “That’s what a record
What do I know? producer is.” You take one look in their eyes
when they arrive to record and see how
I’m also the one at Bell records who had much of them is there that evening. One
Daryl Hall sing on a demo for me and I said, night, Willie Hutch couldn’t sing his songs.
“I’ll sign you if you don’t bring your partner “Not tonight,” he said. The next night he
along.” Dumb. I said, “Well, he only sings came in and sang all eleven back to back.
backup—and plays with you. You write You’ve got to understand the inner workings
them all and sing. What do I want him for?” of the artist.

I also turned down “Hey, Mickie” by Toni Johnny Mathis—you were offered and
Basil, which was a big hit single eventually. recorded him. Did you want to make a
Three bonehead moves that I can think of different kind of album? Did he choose all
while I was at Bell. the tracks?

Interestingly, though, Bell seems to have Neither. The setup is that the head of A&R
had a good eye for talent, as they were for CBS New York said if you do Ronnie
turning out a lot of contemporary hits… Dyson (who was the star of Hair at that
time) for free, I’ll give you the next Mathis
In terms of things that were happening at album. When they called for me to do
that time. Bell was exploding as a singles Mathis, they dictated what we would record.
company. At RCA we didn’t know that we They chose all the cover tunes. Thom Bell
were kind of dying. Bell had great stuff had tried something new on the last Mathis
going on. The only thing was when Clive album and we were told to go back to covers
took over and got rid of the Fifth for this album. Johnny Mathis selected the
Dimension. Fifth were the biggest selling act eleven we finally recorded from the twenty
on the label when Larry Uttal was running or so that Columbia had sent over. I had
things. When I got the Fifth, I thought very little input. D'Arneill Pershing who had
nothing could go wrong. They were the worked on the last eleven Mathis albums
number one act on the label. Clive, more and worked with him on tour created the
times than not though, knows what he’s arrangements. The album was meant to be
doing. He did masterful stuff. Larry Uttal full orchestra, recorded quickly and cheaply.
was very single-orientated, and Clive came Boom. My check for that album was almost
in and said, “The money is in album sales” identical to the one I got from RCA for
and he did a masterful job of it.
major hit singles. It didn’t even sell that

well. “It’s Nice To Be Around” is the song to do.” Within a minute and a half, he was
on the album I’m most proud of. ready to record the finals. He wasn’t the first
person to be intimidated by the size of that
It’s really a very straightforward album. recording studio. The control rooms were
It’s really no different to any of his other intimidating too. These places looked like
regular albums. the Star Trek control room.


Yep. No hit singles. His love was to hit the Johnny Mathis had no input whatsoever?
golf course. He liked to perform a little bit,
although he was terribly shy in those days, Nope. D'Arneill Pershing told me, “Thing
and make those quick albums. We had no for you to know about John Mathis is that
creative control. I had zero. The only thing he’s not Tony Bennett. Tony Bennett wants
that was different was that when it was time creative control and wants to experiment.
for him to do his final vocals where he sang John just wants to sing what you give him
live with the orchestra, he couldn’t hit it. He and go back to the golf course.” I think he
came to me in the control room. “How can I recorded them all in one night and just came
help?” I said. “I’ve had something like back for one re-record.
seventeen producers over the years and I’m
just not feeling it,” he said. This was studio Well, thank you for this great interview,
B at RCA’s music center and it was a John. It’s been a pleasure spending time
gigantic room. Like a gymnasium. He’s got with you.
a new engineer, he knows D'Arneill You’re welcome. It’s been great.
Pershing, and there’s me who he barely
knows. We had only met briefly when we
went over the songs we would be recording.
He was uncomfortable. In his case, I said,
“Just for fun, take off the headset and I’m
going to put a radio speaker out there. Sing
along with the speaker while we decide what

Writing Cimarron these stories will be set in a saloon. So my
initial aim was to come up with a setting that
Jack’s Real Wild readers might not immediately expect, and

West: A Novel the first idea that popped into my mind was
some sort of trick-shooting act in a Wild
West show. That’s what I ran with in my
short story contribution, Pride of the Prairie.
(As it turns out, the 52 contributing authors
were a whole lot more creative than I had
given them credit for, and they set their
stories in a wide variety of places and
situations. My sincerest apologies, fellow
writers, for the heretofore-unconfessed
slight.)

I had a great deal of fun writing the 500-

word micro-short Pride of the Prairie, and
my wife absolutely loved the story. Now,
GP Hutchinson just because she’s married to me doesn’t
necessarily mean my wife is automatically

crazy about any and everything I write. I

A Full-Length Novel from an 18-Word appreciate her being frank with me about
Prompt what she likes and doesn’t like. You as
readers certainly benefit from her early
Back in January, popular author Scott Harris feedback. Anyway, her enthusiasm about the
invited 51 other published Western writers short story made the next step a no-brainer
to join him in an exciting, visionary project. for me—Pride of the Prairie had to be
Each author would take the exact same 18- expanded into a full-length novel. And that’s
word prompt, and around that prompt, craft how Cimarron Jack’s Real Wild West was
a Western short story of precisely 500 words born.
(not 499 and not 501). The result was the
celebrated anthology The Shot Rang Out— From the short story, I already had three
52 Western short stories that each principle characters—Cimarron Jack
incorporated the lines: “The shot rang out. I Wheatley, the relatively young owner of the
heard her scream at the same time the bottle Wild West extravaganza; the lovely Miss
crashed to the floor.” Adelia Flynn, the show’s sharpshooting top
star; and Comanche Joe Tucker, a Native
When Scott Harris graciously invited me to American with keen tomahawk-throwing
contribute to the compilation, I thought, skills. The task ahead of me was to expand
Given the prompt, I’ll bet a good number of

the cast and develop a plot that would things are going to work out. So that was a
(hopefully) grab readers from page one and satisfying part of writing Cimarron Jack’s
keep them eager for more until the final Real Wild West.
paragraph.
Just because hero Jack Wheatley has love
In the end, I enjoyed writing Cimarron interests, don’t sell him short like his
Jack’s Real Wild West even more than the enemies seem to. That, as it turns out, is the
short story it is based on. Part of that is gist of the story. A bushwhacked Wild-
because of the fascinating facts I learned West-show entrepreneur has to prove he's no
about historical Wild West shows as I mere dime-novel hero. Either that, or he’ll
worked on the novel. Why Wild West shows lose everything he holds dear—his friends,
even existed, what acts were popular, his livelihood, his girl, and maybe even his
scandals that arose, friendships and friction life.
between historical Wild West show
performers—all these things captivated me.
I had a feeling that, if I could in any way HAVE YOU TRIED THE LATEST GP
fictionalize some of these factoids, HUTCHINSON HIT?
vignettes, and episodes, then the resulting
novel should resonate with and delight a
good segment of the Western-reading
audience.

Thankfully, some reviewers who are
familiar with the Wild West shows of
history have begun to weigh in through book
reviews and affirm that Cimarron Jack’s
Real Wild West gets the Wild West show
backdrop right. This is very gratifying for
me as I deeply hope that the authenticity
enhances readers’ enjoyment of the novel.

In all of my stories, I strive to include plenty
of action, rising suspense, and colorful
supporting characters. In most, I’m
motivated as a writer to add a dose of
romance, as I’ve done in Cimarron Jack.
There’s something about the falling-in-love
portion of life that strikes a chord with most GRAB YOUR COPY TODAY BY
adults, and I greatly enjoy writing about it. CLICKING HERE!
When surrounding circumstances
complicate and test the falling-in-love bit,
most of us can’t help but wonder whether

The Westerner© Top
Ten for OCTOBER




What a year for new Western releases!
We’re excited about all of the activity
surrounding new authors and those we’ve
known for a while. I think you’ll agree that
Westerns are still king in the American light

literature genre. As we promised, we bring 2. Who doesn’t like the romantic Westerns
you the best in new authors and the widest by author Megan Allen? Breaking Magnolia
selection of great new classics in the book is full of the great characters, romance, and
business. sizzling scenes we can’t discuss here, in
every page turning moment.
Enjoy the top ten for October:
Readers have been flocking to Allen’s books
Here are the Western top ten as voted by in record numbers and, it’s not surprising,
you, our readers: they have pushed this title to the forefront
of new releases. If you haven’t read one, try
this one today.















1. G.P. Hutchinson is an author who many
Western readers already love. His books are
gritty, real, and full of details about the Old 3. Mark Baugher’s C-Bar series has become
West that make them favorites of the most a staple for Western readers. In formats that
discriminating Western reader. extend to film, Baugher brings his
interesting character plays, which have
Cimarron Jack’s Real Wild West is cut out of thrilled readers of all ages.
the same mold that has made Hutchinson a
favorite in this genre. Readers will thrill to C-Bar will wrap you up in the real spirit of
the action and adventure this book offers ranch living and leave you wanting more
on every page. when you turn the last page. The opinion of

most readers is that this book is destined to Readers find his work to be engaging and
be a classic. his presentation to be new and refreshing.
Coyote Courage is a great place to start if
you haven’t read one of his terrific offerings
to date.













4. Cherokee Parks is quickly becoming one
of our favorite authors. His books burst onto

the DSP publishing scene earlier this year by
rushing to the top spot in the genre. 6. Pastor Jim Burnett is quickly garnering
one of the largest followings in the Western
Readers will find his books thoroughly genre. His book The Bible and The Badge
readable and ultimately adventuresome. His has been one of the publications most well
wide scope of writing encompasses all received by our readers.
aspects of Western living and gives the
reader a feeling of being part of a great Jim is a true Western writer with a real
adventure. Grab one today! connection with the Bible. His writing never

loses the tie with his faith. Readers will love
the clarity and good feeling he instills. This
book is a must for all Western readers.













5. What can we say about author Scott
Harris other than he’s destined to be
mentioned alongside the greats. Since
hitting the scene with DSP, his books have 7. One of my favorite Western authors is
dominated the top 50 list. Robert Hanlon. If you’ve been following the
Westerner© magazine, you know his books
are a staple on the must-read list.

Hanlon is truly a Western classic and his allows for a realism that is unmatched by
interesting takes on all aspects of the West most authors. Have a look and see if you
are truly unique in their presentation. I agree.
highly recommend this book to anyone who
has an interest in Westerns or simply wants

a good read.












10. Our readers will recognize the name of

Fred Staff instantly. Fred has been a

contributor to the Westerner© in a number
8. Another great from Scott Harris, this is of issues. He’s a real Western enthusiast and
the Western we’ve been waiting for. Action, his books ooze excitement.
adventure, Harris paints the West like
Georgia O’ Keefe painted canvas. This is a This is one you can’t put down!
book that’s destined to be an American
classic.
Send your favorites and comments to
[email protected]. We
want to hear from our readers.












9. John D. Fie is another author who is very
familiar to our readership. His books have
been favorites among Western readers for a

number of years.

I think you’re going to enjoy Harmon
Bidewell as a great read on many levels.
Fie’s research is second to none and this

Bill To describe Bill Anderson as a great

performer and songwriter would be the
boldest understatement that could be
Anderson made. Bill is a member of the Grand Ole


Opry, the Country Music Hall of Fame,
is the Nashville Songwriter’s Hall of Fame


and this summer was inducted into the
Songwriter’s Hall of Fame.
Still He has reached number one on the



country charts seven times with great
Topping hits like “Still” “Mama Sang a Song”

and “I Get the Fever.” According to

the Wikipedia; artists who have recorded
his material include Ray Price, Wanda
Jackson, Connie Smith, Lynn
Charts Anderson, Jim Reeves, Conway


Twitty, Eddy Arnold, Roy Clark, Con
Hunley, Lefty Frizzell, Brad
Interviewed by the Westerner’s Bruce
Paisley, Kenny Chesney, and George
Bennett
Strait.

He’s appeared on national TV as the

host of several game shows and a
regular on the soap opera, “One Life to

Live.” His talent and creativity have
created a following through generations
but he is still humble and easy going.
It’s no wonder his fans affectionately

have labeled him “Whisperin’ Bill.”

I caught up with the country great as he

was preparing to do several
appearances with superstar Bobby Bare.

In addition, he has a highly anticipated
album release scheduled for later this

year. I found out that Bill Anderson has Bruce: The Songwriter Hall of Fame
no plans to slow down this century and should have inducted you a long time
possibly the next. I can’t think of any ago.
greater thrill for future audiences!
Bill: You’re very kind. I’ve been in the
Bruce: I want to thank you for taking the Nashville Songwriter’s Hall of Fame
time. since 1975. That’s the one that really

honors country music writers and
Bill: Thank you.
people who write out of Nashville.

Bruce: I’m very excited to speak with Sometimes I guess the news travels slow
you. It’s a terrific opportunity. between Nashville and New York. [We
share a laugh!]
Bill: I’m glad we could hook up.

I’m honored that their putting me in
Bruce: I know you’re touring this year
and it doesn’t matter whether it’s now,
and I wanted to ask about your current
ten years ago, or ten years from now.
projects.
I’m awfully glad they’ve seen fit to
Bill: I’ve got many different irons in the honor me like this, and I really

fire. appreciate it.

Bruce: Please start with the one which is Bruce: You’ve had great success

getting you most excited today. songwriting. You’ve got a long list of
hits and beautiful songs that you’ve
Bill: There’s a couple, unfortunately,
written. You began your career in a hot
that I can’t talk about yet. A lot of
country market. What do you think
exciting things are happening. I’m was
made you stand out from the others?
inducted into the Songwriter Hall of
Fame, in New York, in June which was Bill: I don’t know. A lot of help and

pretty darned exciting. good people who believed in me and
helped me at the right time. I was very
I’ve got a new album that I just finished
determined. I felt when I made the
recording which will be out later this
commitment and moved to Nashville
year. I’m working with Bobby Bare and
that I didn’t come to stay five years then
very excited about those concerts. A lot
go back home and get a real job. I came
of good things I can talk about and some
with the goal of making the music
that I can’t… but I hope to be able to
business my life’s work.
speak about soon.

Of course, you never know how things Bill: I joined the Opry as a regular
are going to happen. Things fell in place member in 1961 and I don’t think
for me, better than I ever could have anyone ever forgets the night that
imagined. It became a chance to see they’re inducted. I made my first

what was behind door number one, appearance at the Opry in 1959 so I’ve
door number two, or door number been hanging around there for a long

three. When I opened one door it led time. I still do sixty to seventy
somewhere else and not always appearances a year. Golly, how many
somewhere I expected. times have I been on the Opry? I don’t
know but it’s been a lot.
I’ve had a wonderful life and blessed
life and career. Bruce: The reason I asked the question is
that you’ve worked close with the Opry
Bruce: How many times have you been
throughout your career and I was
on the Grand Ole Opry?
interested to learn if any particular

Bill: [Laughs] That’s quite a question. appearance stood out for you.
I’ve got no idea.
Bill: The night you join. And when
Bruce: Do you have a favorite you’ve been there ten years, twenty-five

performance? years, and in my case even fifty years,
those commemorations are very special.
I’ve had the opportunity to introduce
new talent including people from other

forms of entertainment: athletes, movie
stars, and others like that. It’s been a

very fulfilling part of my life to be a part
of the Opry.

Bruce: Many of us enjoy your song

“Still.” What’s the story behind your
writing of that song?


Bill: I had my first number one record as
an artist in 1962 with a song called
“Momma Sang a Song,” which was a

semi-religious song in which I did a

little bit of singing and a little bit of Bill: I went off on a crazy musical
talking. It was a number one country tangent at the end of the 1970s. I made a
record and actually got into the pop few records where I combined country
charts. My producer at the time, Owen and disco. I don’t know whether that

Bradley, came to me as “Momma Sang a was a good influence or bad influence.
Song” was coming back down the charts People either loved or hated it.

and said, “If we took that same formula,
If I had it to do over again, I’d do it. I
where you sing a little bit and talk a
think it showed that I was willing to go
little bit, and made it a love song I think
beyond certain boundaries in music.
we could crack the ceiling.”
Buddy Killen, who was producing my
He wanted me to write something like records at the time, helped come up
that. So I wrote the song and he did a with the idea. I asked, ”Why can’t you

fabulous job producing the song and he put a country music lyric to a disco
was right. It took us to the next level beat.” He asked, “You want to try it?”
and I owe so much of that to Owen
So we did and it worked but we didn’t
Bradley for his foresight and creativity.
ride that horse very long. We got off of
Bruce: How have other people it as quick as we got on, but it was a fun

influenced your careers and in what little detour.
ways were you affected by others?
I’ve done things apart from the music

industry such as hosting game shows or
appearing on soap operas. I haven’t
been a one-trick pony. I’ve been able to
venture off into other areas and that’s

been a fulfilling part of the journey as
well.


Bruce: What’s been your favorite thing
to do outside of music?


Bill: There’s been more than one. I
mentioned the game shows and I’ve
done three years on a soap opera called

“One Life to Live” on ABC. I never
stopped doing the music but these were

enjoyable side trips. They didn’t seem to Bill: If you’ve got Direct TV, then they
hurt my music. carry RFD TV. Many cable systems
around the county carry it as well. Our
For the last twenty years I’ve been
show is on Friday nights and they
hosting a television show called
replay it on Saturday. I think they even
“Country’s Family Reunion,” which is
repeat it on Sunday nights now.
on a small network called RFD TV. Our

fans, especially those who’ve been with Bruce: You’re working with Bobby Bare.
us through the years, have discovered How did that come about?
the show.
Bill: Bobby and I have been friends a
long time. We worked a concert last
year in Pigeon Forge, TN at an old

country theater, and they sold all the
tickets to the show. I told Bobby, “We
should do more of these, heck, we’ve

been friends forever.” He said, “Yeah, I
think we should.”

He signed with the same booking

agency that I’m with, and it kind of fell
I sit around with friends and
into place. It was a natural thing for us
contemporaries in the business and tell
to work together. We’ve done two
stories and sing songs. I don’t know
concerts, recently, and both of those
whether you could call me a host or
were sold out. I think it’s a combination
more of a traffic cop. I get things from
that works. He draws his crowd and I
point A to point B on these shows.
draw mine and they seem to like both

I’ve had an awful lot of fun doing that our music and we’re having a lot of fun
doing it.
because it combines a couple things I
enjoy, which are television and hosting
Bruce: Have you written new material
shows, as well as getting to sing and
and is it part of your show?
play music as well.
Bill: Yes. It’s not part of the show yet
Bruce: Is it on regularly and how would
because the record isn’t out. Some are
someone find it?
written by myself and some are co-
written.

Bruce: So we can look forward to new
material this year?

Bill: Oh, yeah. My new record is simply

going to be called “Anderson.” I think
Bobby thinks I’m copying him because
his latest album is called “Bare.” [We

share another great laugh!]

Bruce: It sounds like a good title. It

describes it perfectly.

Bill: I hope so.
Bill: The writing process is still the
Bruce: How much has your writing
same. I never try to write a song for
changed since your first great hits and
anyone. I sit down to write the best song
today?
I can write and then let it find its place.

Bill: I don’t know. I’m not sure whether I’ve had songs recorded by James
Brown and Aretha Franklin.
I’m capable of judging that. It might
take an outsider to point out what’s
I think I still kind of do it the same way.
different. I’ve always written Bill
Anderson music in a wide variety of Bruce: Have you ever written a song for

styles; both lyrically and musically. someone else’s voice?

Bruce: When you sit down to write a Bill: No. I write the song and the song

song today is the writing process finds the voice.
different from when you wrote your
Bruce: Tell me about your experience on
first great hits in the 1960s?
television. How did that happen?


Bill: My whole life has been a soap
opera. It just happened. I didn’t set out
to do game show or soap operas. I had a

manager in the early 1970s, from New
York, named Bobby Brenner. He was
well connected with TV people in both

New York and California and he opened songs. One minute he’d be singing,
those doors for me. “Hey, good lookin’, what you got
cookin’?” and the next minute he’d be
I had a game show on ABC that got
doing a recitation called “Men with
cancelled after about a year. The lady
broken hearts.”
who was in charge of programming at
ABC in those days was a big fan of Both of them appealed to me. I was a

mine. She told me, “We’re not going to fan of both and I was influenced by that.
throw the baby out with the bath water. He had songs as Luke the Drifter where
We had to cancel the game show but I’m he sang and talked. So it wasn’t totally

going to put you into a soap opera.” foreign, because I heard him do it, and it
fell into place for me.
I thought, “Yeah, sure you are.” Next

thing you know I was on the set of One
Life to Live playing the part of Bill
Anderson, country singer. It was type-

casting so I didn’t have to reach too far
to play the part they wanted me to play.

They gave me freedom. One of the

storylines was a girl singer in this little
club that was trying to make it big. They

asked me to tell her what I’d tell
someone who came to me for career
advice. I didn’t follow a script because
they let me put things in my own

words. That was kind of them and made
me very comfortable.


Bruce: Who influenced your early
music? Bruce: Do you consciously think of

incorporating that style into your songs
Bill: I was very influenced as a young
today?
boy by Hank Williams. He had an alter
ego called Luke the Drifter. In those Bill: It’s funny, I wrote a song back in

songs he would talk, and they were 2006 with two other writers. One was
mostly recitations and serious kind of Buddy Cannon and the other was a

writer named Jamey Johnson. We wrote Bill: You don’t plan to be around then?
a song called “Give it Away,” which
Bruce: It’s not that I don’t plan to be
was the song of the year in 2007 for
around but I’m somewhat of a realist.
George Strait.

Bill: You’ll never make it in this business
When we were writing the song, Buddy
if you’re a realist. You have to be a
Cannon came up with the idea of doing
dreamer.
a little talking part on the record. I’m so
closely associated with narration, in a Bruce: I’ve enjoyed speaking with you.
song, that I wouldn’t have thought to Thank you for taking your time with me

put it in a song and give it to George today.
Strait. But doggone if it didn’t work.
Bill: I’ve enjoyed it as well and tell your

I don’t sit down and write a song and cohorts over the pond Cheerio, as well!
say, “I’m going to write in a recitation.”

I just let it fall into place, whether I’m

writing by myself or with someone else. BB

Bruce: Have there been artists that you
thought brought a new presence to

country over the years?

Bill: The one thing I tell people that

remains constant about music is that it’s
constantly evolving and changing.


Bruce: I wonder whether there’ll be
country music fifty years from now.

Bill: Well, I plan to hang around for at

least another hundred years and
observe it all. So I’ll let you know.


Bruce: You won’t be able to let me
know. [Bill laughs] But I’m pleased to
hear you’ll be around to continue to

write great music. But you won’t be
talking to me.

Writing Your First advice as gospel. If you have a story you

Western Can be want to tell, or even if you have part of a
story, start writing.
Scary!
I recently released a new book, Slaughter at
Buzzard’s Gulch. It’s the first book in my
new series, Caz: Vigilante Hunter. It’s a

complete departure (except that they’re
both Westerns) from my ongoing series,
Brock Clemons Westerns. And when I
started it, I was just as nervous as when I
wrote the first Brock book (Coyote
Courage). But, I started typing, and the
story and the words unfolded and I’m
excited about the result.


At this point, you might say “Sure, writing
Caz must have been easy after writing eight

Brock Clemons books in a year,” but if you
by Scott Harris did, you’d be wrong. Up until a year ago, I


had never written a Western. I’d never
written a novel. And now, in less than a
The Halloween edition of The Westerner year, Slaughter at Buzzards Gulch is my 13
th
seems like the perfect time to pen a column Western. I absolutely remember how hard it
encouraging you to write your first Western can be to get started. I remember, and in
novel. Why? Because it can be scary! many cases am still dealing with, all of the
questions you might have.
A hot microphone and a room full of
people, and a blank page (OK, screen) in an How much research should I do? How do I

otherwise empty room, are, for many of us, format the book? Where do I get my
two of the scariest things you can be staring character names? First person, third person
it. or a combination? Do I need a publisher or
should I self-publish? Will anyone read it?
My best advice? Start writing.
And the list of questions goes on, and on,

Don’t overthink it. Don’t think there’s only and on, and on….
one way to do it. Don’t find reasons to do
I recently started a weekly blogpost called
something, anything (really, honey, you’re
Tuesday Trail notes and every week (yep,
finally going to clean the rain gutters?)
on Tuesdays), I write a post
other than write. Certainly don’t take my

(ScottHarrisWest.com) dealing with one of it. Doesn’t matter if you eventually hit

the many questions and issues first time “delete” and start over, at least you tried.
novelists have. In truth, I find writing it at
I guess in the very simplest of terms, the
least as valuable for me as I hope it is for
best way to write your first Western novel is
you. Again, this is all still new to me and
to read and write as much as you can.
though some of it has gotten easier, much of
Hmmm, maybe my mom was right.
it is still a little vague, a bit confusing. But—
and here is the key—the absolute only way I wish you good writing and if you have a
to overcome those fears, to tackle those question, or something you’d like to share,

challenges, is to start typing. send me an email at
[email protected].
Let me make two suggestions (other than
checking out all of the suggestions I make Thank you, enjoy and keep writing!
on the blog) to help you get started.


First, and hopefully you’ve read a ton of
Westerns, think about who your favorite
writers are. What style of Western do you
love? For me, as cliché as it sounds, it was
and is Louis L’Amour. Sure I have quite a
few other favorites, but I kept (and still do)
coming back to Louis. I’ve read every one of

his more than one hundred novels at least
three times. And it helped me start to
develop a style of my own. So, pick a
favorite author, or two, read everything
they've written and start taking notes. What
do you like? How do they open a book, a
chapter? How do they handle dialog?

Violence? And then, try to incorporate that
into your efforts. I don't mean copy, of
course, but there is nothing wrong with
using one of the greats for helping you
develop your own style.
Grab the latest Scott Harris hit “Caz:

Second, write. Just start writing. Doesn’t Vigilante Hunter” today by clicking here!
matter if it’s good, you’ll get there. Doesn’t

matter if the story makes sense, you can fix

RIDING When Outlaws Publishing signed R.G. Yoho, it

was a match made in heaven—a great author
and a great publisher put together to create
literary magic. This interview should be a good
THE introduction to this great author—so, readers,

listen up—this is a brand new interview with
R.G. Yoho… especially for you.
TRAIL Interviewer: So, R.G., what’s going on


with you?

R.G. Yoho: Oh, I just had some errands to
WITH run this morning and had to hustle back

‘cause I knew this interview was coming.


Interviewer: How did you get into writing
R.G. Westerns? What is it about Westerns that

gets you excited?


YOHO R.G. Yoho: Well, to be honest with you, it’s
a long and strange story when you really
get down to it. I had no interest in being a
writer when I was a child. And if you told
me in high school, in college, that I’d have
AN INTERVIEW WITH interest in being an author or even a writer,

I would have just laughed at you.
WESTERN WRITING

I was always interested in Westerns. My
SENSATION R.G. YOHO
dad got me started watching John Wayne
movies and I loved them. I loved the West. I
loved the Westerns, and the Western TV
shows from the time I was a kid. My dad
always had a Louis L’Amour book in his
lunch bucket when he went to work. And,

of course, back then I used to make fun of
him for carrying those dime store novels.
Then one day I decided, well, I’m making
fun of him all the time, I ought to sit down
and read one of them. I read a Louis
L’Amour book called Flint. And the truth is

I was hooked. After that time, I read about decided to start writing books, though. I

every book Louis L’Amour wrote. just sat down, had an idea for a story, and I
Somewhere along the line I decided that, penned my first manuscript. The third and
you know, Louis L’Amour isn’t gonna live fourth ones are actually books I had
forever; who’s gonna write books like this published. Now, come to think of it, I just
when he’s gone? I guess that’s the point I published recently my second manuscript.
said: why don’t I try it? And that’s kinda My first one—I wouldn’t let anybody see it
how it got started. I was probably close to even if I knew where it was.
my—I was in my upper twenties, close to
Interviewer: It can’t have been that bad. I
thirty years old when this all happened,
mean, readers like the second one.
when I started trying to write.
[laughter]
Interviewer: Interesting. So you were really
R.G. Yoho: It was awful though. I mean,
influenced by Louis L’Amour?
actually the second manuscript I ever wrote
R.G. Yoho: Yeah, more so than anybody is my book “Boot Hill Valley.”
else. I will say this: My dad was reading
Interviewer: Really?
these books for a long time and I was
making fun of him, which ought to show R.G. Yoho: Yes.
you who the real smart one was between
the two of us. Interviewer: Readers like that one.


Interviewer: [laughter] It’s true. It’s R.G. Yoho: Yeah, that book, there’s not
amazing how the things we grew up much about it really that resembles the
around influence what we’re going to do. It original book I wrote… a little bit. I mean,
really is. the basic skeleton of the story’s still there
but it got a whole lot fatter after that, you
R.G. Yoho: Yeah. know.

Interviewer: So how did you get started? Interviewer: Interesting. So you took it and
What was the first step? Did you have an reworked it a few years later?
idea in mind, or did you play at it a little
bit? How did you get started? R.G. Yoho: Yes. I didn’t even know—what’s
interesting about it, I didn’t even know that
R.G. Yoho: When first started, I just had an manuscript still existed, or that I had it
idea for writing a book. The truth is, anywhere. See, a lot of these, when I wrote
sometime before that I had actually started them, we’re talking thirty years ago. And at
writing other things. And I started going to that time this was pretty well before the PC
a couple of writers’ conferences and things. was really big and we were still getting by
But I just decided. That was really after I on 5 and 1/2 inch floppy disks, or 3 and a

quarter. Or whatever those other disks… R.G. Yoho: I’d never talked about it. I really

and so a lot of that doesn’t exist. And thought it was a dream that I was giving up
somebody had a copy of that manuscript and I regret the fact that I wasted that much
and I didn’t know it—a relative of my time but, you know, life is as it is.
wife’s—and sent it to me. And I thought,
Interviewer: Oh, yeah. Things keep rolling
my gosh, this is something I could work on.
and you have to keep with what’s going on
And that’s kinda how that came about. I
in your life. But it must have been quite an
didn’t even know I had it till just a few
interesting thing to be picked up by New
years ago.
York publishing house.
Interviewer: How did you first get your
R.G. Yoho: Aw, yes, it was. It was pretty
first book published? I mean, what was that
exciting back in those days. New York was
process like?
where it all happened. If you were gonna

R.G. Yoho: That process was about thirty publish a Western, it pretty well had to
years. Probably closer to nineteen. Some of come out of New York. Of course, the
those manuscripts, about the third or fourth business has changed since then. But I do
one, I went to a writers’ conference in regret that I didn’t keep at it because I have
Pennsylvania. It was probably my second or a lot of manuscripts sitting around that
third conference and I actually got a literary could be books right now had I kept doing
agent at that conference. She took that it. But like I said, you live life how it is, not
manuscript and put it on the New York how you wish it should be.

publishing house desk and I thought I was
Interviewer: What avenue did you take
on my way then to be quite honest with ya.
with that first book when you published?
And then nothing happened. My agent
Did you self-publish, or did you go to a
contacted me some time back and said they
publishing house?
were gonna publish it, that the market died
for Westerns before a slot opened up. My R.G. Yoho: The first book I had published
daughter was 2 or 3 when that happened. was with an outfit that used to be known as

And I threw my manuscripts in the drawer, Publish America. I won’t say much about it
just really forgot about them and wrote except they don’t have a really great
other things. I just really quit writing reputation and most of their books are
Westerns. And when I decided to try to pull largely sold to their own authors. And now,
them out and get published again, my a lot of people may say some bad things
daughter was probably about nineteen and about this publishing house, but it actually
at that point she never knew I’d ever gave me a break in allowing me to go
written a Western. somewhere else. And my second book,

which wound up being Death Comes to
Interviewer: Interesting.

Redhawk, I contacted a small publisher in Interviewer: [laughter] So you don’t read

Michigan and he wanted to offer me a you own books for pleasure?
partner deal in publishing it; and I said I
R.G. Yoho: Ah. Well, I could, six months
wasn’t interested in that. And he called me
later. But when I see that book, when I send
about six months later and wanted to give
that book off to the publisher, when it goes
me a traditional contract, asked me if I’d
off to Outlaws Publishing, usually by that
published the manuscript and I said no, I
point I ain’t interested in ever seeing that
hadn’t. I took him up on it and that’s kinda
book again. I hate it; by that time I’ve read it
how it got started. But I don’t think it
too many times and it bores the heck out of
would’ve happened had it not been for the
me.
publisher of this other book. I think it did
some things for me, although it didn’t do Interviewer: [laughter] So how did you get
much about getting my name out there or with Outlaws Publishing?
help me in the business, but you know I’ve
had some weird roads as far as my career R.G. Yoho: Well, I saw an ad online for an
interview, I think in The Westerner, and I
up till now.
contacted them thinking it’d be good for a
Interviewer: It sounds like it. How do you little bit of publicity. And that’s when JC
go about the editing process? Do you edit Hulsey called me. And of course, then the
yourself? Do you like to use an editor? How first thing he told me kinda rubbed me the
do you work that? wrong way, but I think he was exactly

correct. The first thing he told was ‘your
R.G. Yoho: Ah, I’m working on getting an
books cost too much, Bob.’ But I was
editor. I contacted a woman who used to
attracted by the fact that he wanted all my
work for the newspaper, locally, and I think
Westerns. He wanted every one of them. He
she’s gonna edit some of my books. I’ve
wanted me to try to bring them all to
done most of it myself and got some other
Outlaws Publishing. And it was kinda
people to help me if I could wrangle them
interesting actually have a publisher come
into it. For the most part, I’ve done most of
after me for a change instead of me having
it myself, but you’re not the best person to
to hunt them down.
edit your own work. I’m darn good at
proofreading somebody else’s material, but Interviewer: He certainly has a habit of
in your own you see what you think is chasing down authors and grabbing them.
there, not really what’s really there, and it He’s done a good job of collecting them, I
doesn’t work real well trying to do it think.
myself. And usually by the time I send a
book off, I’m sick of that book and don’t R.G. Yoho: And I was with somebody else.

care if I ever see it again. Out of loyalty I wanted to stay there, and
had they been selling, I probably would.

What I did, I offered JC a book, actually Western, but Western readers, I believe, will

Boot Hill Valley, and I needed to rewrite enjoy it as well.
that manuscript anyway and I’d been
Interviewer: Where do you get your ideas
putting it off and putting it off. And I
from, though? It seems like you’re all over
decided to go ahead and finish it and send
the place with your ideas. It seems like they
it off to Outlaws and wanted to see what
just come to you.
he’d do with it. Well, it just so happens that
in the first month he earned me more R.G. Yoho: That would probably be the best
money for one book than I was earning with answer for it. I mean, I’d love to give you

seven books with another publisher. It was some great answer, but the truth is they do
at that point I was pretty well certain that I just come to me. I’ve got three or four
needed to go a different route, and so I more… I write a series about a character
bought my way out of a contract. That’s a named Kellen Malone from the Death
long story there, but now all my books are Comes to Redhawk; and I’ve probably got
with Outlaws. three or four more sequels in my head right

now. I’ve just gotta find time to get to
Interviewer: Interesting.
paper. It’s hard to do when you work a full
R.G. Yoho: Actually, they’re being re- time job as well. But probably a lot of other
released a little bit at a time so I don’t have people have that problem, but I don’t think
all my Westerns out there yet, but they’re a lot of them turn out books consistently
coming. while working a full time job. Most of them

don’t try that.
Interviewer: How many Westerns are
there? Interviewer: Do you find that you enjoy
Western books by your contemporaries at
R.G. Yoho: Ah, there’s six. I actually wrote a
the moment, you know the Paul
book called Return to Matewan that
Thompsons. The Wayne Winkles. Do you
involves the coal mine wars in the town, in
read those books?
West Virginia, which took place in the early
1920’s. And the truth is, it’s not real R.G. Yoho: I’ve read several books by
different than a Western. In fact there’s a people who are published by Outlaws. I
western connection to it because the plan to probably read some more. In a lot of
Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency, which is ways, I try to stay away from Westerns
involved in intimidating coal miners at that sometimes just because I don’t want to be

time, was also involved in the Ludlow influenced by the stories I read. But I read
massacre out in Colorado. So there’s a great one by one of Outlaws’ authors just
connection between them and West recently. Actually the guy sent it to me, and
Virginia. And that book is technically not a

I was pretty impressed by it. I felt it was intimidated a lot of miners in the early

very well done. twenties. And they were contemporaries of
the Pinkertons. But this man named Charles
Interviewer: Which one was that?
Lively was involved in a lot of the violence
R.G. Yoho: It was a book by Scott Harris. I in West Virginia around the coal mine wars,
think Coyote Courage, I believe. And I along with what happened with the Ludlow

thought it was a very well done book. Massacre out in Colorado. Charles Lively is
an absolutely fascinating individual, maybe
Interviewer: He’s about to go to number not a good man, but he’s fascinating. And
one with that one. I think he’s like three or I’m trying to pursue him a little bit more
two in the chart at the moment. That’s a and trying to write a biography of the man.
pretty big one. He committed suicide in Huntington, West

Virginia on May 28, 1962. And I’d love to do
R.G. Yoho: Yeah, I think I read that pretty
his biography. The man’s never specifically
early on. I’m looking forward to meeting
been written on and he’s an absolutely
him. I’ve talked to him a little bit on the
fascinating character. He shot a man to
phone, but it’d be good to meet some of
death right on the courthouse steps in
these people.
Welch, West Virginia. A man that was
Interviewer: What are you working on at probably—more than likely—unarmed.
the moment? Shot him and another man right in front of
their wives. And was acquitted for it, by the
R.G. Yoho: I’m kinda working on two
way.
projects. I’m working on another sequel to

the Kellen Malone series. And, my last Interviewer: Really? [laughter]
book… ‘course, people at Outlaws hadn’t
R.G. Yoho: Yes. And the thing… I actually
had a chance to read it, but it’s actually
had a pretty well-known WWA (Western
called The Evil Day. One of the characters in
Writers Association) member profile this
it is left in not a very good state and that has
book I wrote. I wrote a fictional account of
to be resolved. And I plan to resolve that in
much of this, but he used the term, I forget
this book. I won’t say too much about it,
how he said it, but he said it just shows you
especially being that it hasn’t been released
how Western things can get in West
yet. I truly love that.
Virginia. It was a pretty wild time back in
Along with that, I’m pursuing (I mentioned that state, and I’m a West Virginian by birth
about that mine wars thing), there’s an so that’s why I’m interested in things like
individual named Charles Lively that was that. But the story behind this man would
involved in the mine wars. Worked for the be absolutely fascinating, and his story’s
Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency, which never specifically been told. I’ve traced him

all over the country. And along with fiction R.G. Yoho: All right, see you later.

I also do some non-fiction. So it’s just a

story I’d like to tell along with the Westerns.

Interviewer: Did you find that growing up
in West Virginia influenced your writing?


R.G. Yoho: I think so. West Virginia’s a
unique place. I think it has a lot of
similarities with Texas. Because West
Virginians and Texans are pretty fiercely
protective of their states; you know they can
joke about them but they don’t really
appreciate anybody doing it. And I think

there’s a lot more similarities between the
two states that I won’t go into. But I will tell
you that Texas is my second favorite state in
this country, although most of my life’s
been spent in Ohio. But yeah, West Virginia,
I think there’s something about it isn’t
generally known. A lot of people don’t even
know the state exists, you know. They think

you’re talking about Western Virginia,
which, people in West Virginia take pretty
personal. [laughter] The state was, well, it
was actually conceived through conflict. It
The hottest Western bestseller from R.G.
was created during the Civil War. And it’s
Yoho! Gripping action, drama and
probably unconstitutional, the creation of
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that state as well. The state was created
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during war and I think it just maybe creates
a conflict, you know. And a lot of the people Grab your copy today by clicking here!
from there are fiercely protective of the
state. I think it’s something in your blood;
most West Virginians are pretty proud of it.


Interviewer: I can imagine. Well, it’s great
meeting you, Bob. Thank you for your time,
and for a great interview.