Mad Women

Shelly Lazarus

You learn how to do that and you also learn that you don’t have to do
everything yourself to be a great mother. It took me until the third one
to learn this, but it is OK to have help over the weekends to do some of
the washing and cleaning, so that frankly by the time you are free you
can have more time for your kids.

The reason I’m still in advertising and business is the intellectual puzzle.
I love it. I still love figuring out for clients what their marketing plan
should be. So, I still love the context, which is really interesting after all
these years. I keep saying, if our business hadn’t changed as much and
if it wasn’t as complex right now, I probably wouldn’t be as engaged.
If it’s too simple, then it’s not interesting to me. Give me a knottier
problem. I love business problems and you have to love what you do to
find a balance in life. So if a young woman wants advice about whether
to go into advertising, I would say try it, it is not something you can
know from the outside. Try it, see what you think, but if you find it trivial
and silly, get out because you are not going to enjoy it.
  I loved it from the beginning. But I know a lot of people who do
think it is trivial, silly, capricious and arbitrary; after all there is no
“right answer”. My husband, who is a doctor, thinks this whole thing
is crazy because in his field there is an experience base and scientific
methods. We, on the other hand, are trying to put our arms around
clouds, you just don’t know and that, to me, just makes it the greatest
fun in the world!

1) Forbes Magazine named Shelly Lazarus the fourth most powerful woman in America in
1999. She has appeared again and again on the magazine’s “100 Most Powerful Women in
the World” list at number 93 in 2004, at number 78 in 2005, and at number 87 in 2006.
She was likewise on Fortune Magazine’s list of the “50 Most Powerful Women in Business”,
reaching number 11 in 2001, number 14 in 2002, and number 30 in 2006.

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Shelly Lazarus

Meeting with Shelly was of course special, because of who she is
and because we are both part of the Ogilvy family. It was good to hear
her describe the agency culture as one which does not tolerate bad
behaviour and also as an agency where women do well, because it is a
true meritocracy. What counts is not gender or background, it is your
talent and the contribution you make and therefore women don’t
need remedial help; all they need is an even playing field. I like that
way of looking at it; there’s nothing wrong with us, don’t feel sorry for us.
We really are not asking for anything more or anything special, just the
same opportunities as men. It’s as simple as that.

Another interesting take-out from the conversation with Shelly was her
belief that it isn’t easier to be a woman in advertising today compared
to the 70’s. I have always just taken it for granted that things have
evolved and improved; that it would naturally be easier now than then.
Shelly points out that it’s more natural today and in that way easier,
but that women don’t have the same influence or power just from the
fact that they are women that they used to have. I realized I had never
thought of it that way, as I stepped outside the Chocolate Factory in
which Ogilvy operates, on 11th Avenue. And the skies had cleared and
it was no longer raining.

45



Stefanie Wurst has been the managing director of Scholz & Friends in
Berlin since 2003. In January 2013 she also became a member of the agency’s
executive board, the first woman to join the highest management level of the
Scholz & Friends Group.

When I first approached Stefanie to ask if she would be part of my book,
she was a bit hesitant and then she replied: “I am not sure if I am a good
role model.” My initial reaction to her answer was that it was an example
of typically female modesty. But once I had talked to Stefanie, and become
absolutely convinced that she is an excellent role model, I think I understand
why she responded in that way.

Everything about Stefanie seems natural and given. Or to put it
more straightforwardly: Stefanie has self-confidence, self-confidence
in a strong, positive and inspiring way. So the fact that she questioned
whether she is a good role model is not because she is insecure. On the
contrary, she’s never questioned her ability, never seen it as something
unusual and therefore never thought about herself as a role model.
After talking to her, I am, however, convinced that her advice, her energy

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

and her persistence will definitely encourage and inspire other women.
Stefanie’s CV reveals a determined route based on true interests and
curiosity. She studied economics and sociology in Germany but started
her career in New York and Singapore before returning to Germany again.

Stefanie, what is the key to your success?

Perseverance! I think that is the key to my career and success in the
advertising industry. I just never give up. And that would be my advice
to young women entering the field of advertising. If it doesn’t happen
today, it doesn’t mean it won’t happen at all. Believe in yourself and be
persistent, pursue your goal.
  I have probably been lucky because I was surrounded by strong, pro-
fessional women right from the start when I worked at Ammirati &
Puris in New York. I also worked for TBWA in Singapore in the late 90’s
when China was waking up and Hong Kong was a powerful place. I had
a lot of female clients in leading positions, so in Asia I was never under
the impression that it would be especially difficult for women to be
successful. In Hong Kong there were even some women leading adver-
tising agencies and there were many female client service directors,
although not as many in creative leadership. So because of these expe-
riences, I never really got the impression that there was a glass ceiling;
that women couldn’t move up.
  When I returned to Berlin, I got a position as head of the biggest
business unit at Scholz & Friends, and two years later I was promoted
to become partner and managing director. After some time, I started
wondering why there weren’t more women, the way it had been in the
US and in Asia. But here, too, I never had the impression that anyone
made it especially difficult for them.
  I have perhaps been lucky in being surrounded by people, usually
men – creatives and bosses – who have put a lot of trust in me. I didn’t
really have to report to them, they trusted me to do things on my own,
trusting my ability and judgement. And also on the client side there
were a lot of people who entrusted me with a lot of responsibility.

48

Stefanie Wurst

What do you think it is in your personality that has made people put trust in you?

I think I have a lot of self-confidence to be able to accomplish things.
And I like to solve problems. As a junior account executive I attended
many meetings listening to my seniors and I would often think – Oh,
that’s what I thought, too. And I realised that what I thought about
problems and things wasn’t seen as stupid, and I found that people
would listen to me. That gave me a lot of self-confidence quite early
on in my career.
  Finishing school at the age of 18, I didn’t really know what to do.
One of my fellow students told me she wanted to work in advertising,
which sounded interesting, so I started looking into that. At this time,
my dad worked at BMW, so he managed to get me a day of introduc-
tion at the agency in Düsseldorf that worked for BMW at the time. I
talked to the client service director and the creative director and the
CSD showed me the consumer segmentation model they used. I was
fascinated by this model; that you could find out more about people,
understand people better and then base ideas and advertising on your
knowledge and insights into them.
  I also did an internship at the press department of Motoren- und Tur-
binen-Union, then part of Daimler, and wrote for the internal maga-
zine, which I enjoyed, too. I actually wanted to study graphic design;
my mum is an artist – but my dad, who is an engineer, didn’t support
a career in what he saw as an unprofitable field. So I studied business
administration and I majored in marketing and sociology.
  I have always been interested in people, which I think has also contrib-
uted to me being successful in my career. It is a useful trait when creating
insightful advertising, but also to understand how a corporate culture
or a client works. I am interested in my clients as persons, but also
in how people make an organisation work and what drives big companies.
  After my studies I moved to the US and worked at Ammirati & Puris,
which was a creative-driven, very successful agency in the early 90’s. I
was involved with the UPS account, mainly doing competitive analysis.
It was great to be in New York, but there I learned that the way you
progressed at the agency was first to be a secretary, then a traffic person

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

and eventually a junior account executive, about two years later. I
found this a bit too slow and I knew that in Germany I could enter as
a junior account executive faster, so I returned back home. I sent out
ten applications and got the job I really wanted – to work on the global
NIVEA (Beiersdorf) business as a junior account executive at TBWA
in Hamburg.
  Having worked in the US gave me valuable experience and open-
ed the door for the position at TBWA Hamburg. Additionally, a scien-
tific thesis with a good evaluation, that I had worked on for six months,
gave me a lot of self-confidence through experiencing I could work
scientifically and also come up with new ideas myself.

At the beginning of the 90’s there were already a lot of women in
responsible positions on the client side, at Beiersdorf. Also, I had
one female creative director about ten years my senior and the
executive creative director was a gay guy, which I guess is often the
case when it comes to working on fashion and cosmetics accounts,
so I didn’t have the feeling that it was really MTU male oriented in
a stereotypical sense. At the beginning, I also had a female boss, an
account director.
  Today, at Scholz & Friends Berlin, there are very few female copy-
writers and creative directors but many more female art directors. On
the account side, there are a lot of strong women in responsible posi-
tions, leading account groups and business units as well as one female
managing director for the design unit.
  But there is clearly a lack of women in the industry. When we go to
pitch presentations and see other agencies, I am usually the only wom-
an. For a big pitch, agencies send managing directors and creative
directors – so usually there are a lot of men dressed in black and hardly
ever a woman. If there’s a woman occasionally, it’s usually an account
director to represent the daily business and daily contact. Clients told
me that the mere fact that we were the only agency showing up with a
woman indicated that we were more progressive than other agencies.
Although it has become a question of prestige in Germany to have

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

a woman in a leading position, there are still not that many. I don’t
know why that is so, and I don’t have an adequate answer. I suppose
it’s because a lot of women want to have children, usually between the
age of 30 and 40. They then decide to put a greater emphasis on their
family and work part time, and it is more difficult to get promoted
then. We have consciously worked on re-integrating women who are
mothers and as a consequence have more successful examples than we
had a couple of years ago. We also have more and more men taking
paternity leave, even managing directors.

Another reason for fewer women than men being in leading positions
could be that men usually show more self-confidence. They speak
more about their success and are able to put their successes into a bet-
ter light. Most women would find it embarrassing to go on telling what
they did well or better, whereas a man would do that quite naturally.
I think I have a bit more of what often is referred to as male behav-
iour in that respect. Probably not everyone likes it, but I don’t really
think about it. It’s the same thing if people find me difficult or bossy. I
think it is very common and easy for men to denounce women as being
bitchy, bossy or difficult. But after all, it is just the same behaviour that
men display. They just label it differently.
  At the end of the day, you have to produce results and that is what
people will respect you for. Persistency is another quality for being
successful. If you try once and it doesn’t work, you have to try another
time! The key to success as a person and also as an organisation is to
stand up one more time than your competitors.
  Speaking of persistency – I am sure many men I work with some-
times feel I get on their nerves, that I can be a pain in the ass. And
of course men don’t actually like it when women get on their nerves,
so the balance is very delicate. You have to be efficient and persistent,
but you have to be empathetic as well, towards people at the agency
such as bosses and co-workers but also towards your clients. Being in-
terested in people, what drives and motivates them, is very important.
And this is different for everyone, because we are all different, luckily.

52

Stefanie Wurst

However, it is also important to surround yourself with people you
can talk to when you are discouraged. People who help you get out
of the depression pit, people you can talk to openly and who can give
you good advice.
 
Another key to success in our industry is to like your clients and grow
alongside them. It’s important to really understand them and keep up
a positive attitude, even in rough times. After all, they give us money
to do great work and they make the agency run. They want a problem
to be solved. That’s why they come to an agency. So understanding
them and their problem is the key. And very often, if you listen closely,
you may find that they have a very different problem than the one they
initially claimed to have.

Do you believe the advertising industry is changing in favour of employing
more women?

It has changed and it is changing, but far more slowly than I thought
it would. In my opinion the US, some Asian countries, France, the
Scandinavian countries and many more are more advanced than Ger-
many in the sense that women can have children and success. I see
it recently working in Berlin, better than in the rest of the country,
I think, as there is a lot of good childcare and a more flexible and di-
verse life style. It is essential that society creates institutions and other
possibilities so that women can combine children and success. This is
an important topic overall, for the advertising industry too.
  Also, as I said earlier, it has become prestigious to have women on
the boards of big corporations. Change is slow and difficult, as always,
but things are moving. In ten years’ time, there will inevitably be far
more women in leading positions. But women do not operate in an
ideal world, they operate in reality, and in reality Europe is a difficult
place to be in right now with the present economic circumstances. If
nothing moves economically, change will come slower.

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

You were recently appointed to the executive board at your agency. Are you
getting a lot of attention as a woman with power in the industry?
There has been an ongoing discussion about women in leading posi-
tions for the past few years; on quotas and the like – on a national
level and in the European Union. I don’t want to ride on the ticket
that I am a woman in a leading position. And I am also not the first
one; more and more big corporations in Germany recently appointed
women to their boards, and this has been commented on a lot. I think
Angela Merkel gave a great answer when she first came to power: “Well,
51% of Germans are women, so I don’t think it is something special.”
What advice would you give a young woman entering the advertising industry?
First of all, I wouldn’t tell her not to go into advertising, as I still think
it is a great place to be! I would tell her two things – believe in yourself
and be persistent. Pursue your goal and if it doesn’t work the first time,
it will eventually work out if you keep on going and deliver. Delivery is
the key – not just talking, but doing!
  Other things that have definitely helped me in my career are liking what
you do, liking the people you work with and being curious about them.
  The lust, energy and desire to change things are very important.
There are a lot of people who say this and that not everything is pos-
sible. You have to make them believe it can be done. Put your energy
into things you like and you will find that it generates new energy.

54

Stefanie Wurst

It was so refreshing to meet a woman with such self-confidence, based
on an absolute belief in herself, but without being at all arrogant or
unsympathetic. I think Stefanie realized early on in her career that she
was just as smart as anyone else in meetings and that made her trust
and believe in herself, something which is so key.
  If you believe in yourself and your ideas, it is also so much easier to
be persistent and persistency is essential. I also completely agree with
Stefanie when she says that persistency has to be balanced by empathy,
towards both colleagues and clients.
  It was also good to hear a woman say that it is OK to be considered a
pain in the ass sometimes. We are not here only to please, we are here
to do a good job and sometimes that requires asking people to re-work,
re-think or work harder, for example.

55



I first heard about The 3% Conference through Jean Grow, whom you can
also read about in this book. I am so glad she told me about the conference,
as it meant I had the opportunity to meet Kat Gordon, the woman who has
managed, for the first time ever, to gather, inspire and empower women who
work in advertising, not for just a one-off conference, but through a happening
that sparked a whole movement.
  In short, Kat Gordon started a conference that inherently has to change
its name, every time it takes place.

While writing this book, my art director, my editor and I have had
interesting discussions around what it means to be a successful woman
in advertising; what is the definition of success? Who should be in this
book?
  A male art director I bumped into served it on a silver platter when he
said: “Why are you writing about her? She hasn’t achieved anything!”
commenting on one of the women in the book. When I asked him
what he meant, he elaborated: “She hasn’t produced any cool cam-
paigns, she hasn’t won a single Lion in Cannes”.

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

That was his definition of success in the industry. Mine goes more like
this: someone who has been business-smart and creative, producing
advertising that makes a difference to the client’s business, that is, pro-
ducing answers to the problem, whereby you can win both creative
awards and Effies, whether from a small agency or from a huge net-
work agency. Further, to me, it is a person who has been inspiring,
brave and supportive as a colleague or leader, perhaps even as a
mentor. A person who has been occupied with nurturing and develop-
ing people, as well as the industry and its clients, to always do better, be
braver, explore more. One of those persons is Kat Gordon.

We meet at the Hotel Triton for our interview the day after the confer-
ence. Kat is tired, but extremely pleased. The conference was a huge
success. We start talking about what preceded it, what made it happen.
  The first time Kat realized the imbalance between women and men
in the industry was when she was working at the agency Hal Riney +
Partners and they were in a pitch to win the SAAB account. They put
up the portraits of the people who were supposed to be on the team
for the pitch and Kat walked by them in the corridor and it was just all
men, men, men. Seventeen in all. It became so apparent to her that
there was not a single woman on the team.

What did you do then?

It was not something I felt I could voice at the time. I don’t think I had
the confidence at the time to bring it to anyone’s attention. But I was
almost in shock. If I had to trace the desire to create this conference
back to one single moment in my career, it would be that moment.
Today, I would never be silent about something like that and I would
address it before the pitch.
  For the most part I had a wonderful agency career with supportive
colleagues and bosses, the majority of them men. But there were a
couple of things; for example, one project came into the agency and it
looked like a crappy assignment, but I stepped up as a team player and
said I would happily be assigned to it. However, when it became appar-

58

Kat Gordon

ent that it involved staying at a kind of get-away resort at a great hotel,
my male boss took the assignment back and went himself. I don’t know
if that is a female-male thing or just poor management?
  On the whole I feel I have produced some great work and I feel
there was good camaraderie, especially at Anderson Lembke. It was
an agency with incredibly generous standards, for example six weeks
of vacation, which was unheard of. It sort of set the tone for what the
agency was about. Business-wise it was also a very special time. They
had gotten the Microsoft business and they did a really good job of
having people bring in people they knew. That was my first agency ex-
perience, before going on to work as a senior copywriter at Hal Riney.

When did you first come up with the idea of running your own business?

I started my own agency, Maternal Instinct, five years ago, but went free-
lance already straight after Hal Riney, 15 years ago. What drove me to
do it was I wanted to have kids and I was commuting between Palo Alto
and San Francisco every day and I knew that I was not going to be the
kind of mother I wanted to be with those kinds of hours and the com-
muting. So I started freelancing and had my first son and then I had
my second son four years later.
  When I had just had my second son I was offered a job at Google,
but I turned it down. I have never regretted it despite the fact that I
would have made a lot of money through the stock options when the
company went public. I just feel that the job I have done with my sons
has made them good citizens. I was still a working mother, I wasn’t an
absentee mother, wasn’t a ghost. I feel you will always have new work-
ing opportunities, but that time with your kids will never come back.
  Shortly after my second son was born I was working with a lot of cli-
ents who specifically wanted and needed to target mothers. It was ap-
parent that I had experience and know-how that was desirable. I often
heard in meetings “Let’s ask Kat, she’s an expert”. Clients know it is a
market that not everyone understands, so I realized it was time for me
to make my services more of a full agency and showcase that specialty.
I branded Maternal Instinct five years ago and looked to take things up

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

a notch. I had a business idea that was smart and very well received and
personally also very gratifying from an emotional standpoint.
  The reactions from former colleagues were very supportive and
positive, with one exception – one agency seemed to feel threatened
by my business idea and didn’t want me to have work I produced for
them on my website.
  In building my agency I think I have been inspired by the way
Anderson Lembke grew organically, by adding professional people
whom you like working with. I have recruited great colleagues who all
share my passion for the business and who, like me, want to be able
to have a great private life parallel to work. We are based in Palo Alto,
which cuts out the deadly commuting into San Francisco. No one is
full time, we scale up and down as needed. I feel very happy and proud
that I have managed to create a successful business and a working en-
vironment that is so nourishing. Womanhood and motherhood have
made me rich; it is what nourishes my creativity and my contribution,
more so than advertising as such.
  A lot of women do what I do; stay in advertising but do something
smaller. Some might think we are quitters, but of course it depends
on what the norm supposedly is, and of course it has to be a personal
decision, not the only option available to women. We should not have
to do that. The agencies should make it easier for women to stay.
  I love what I do. I feel the route I took enabled me to have success on
my own terms – not the terms of big agencies. But I also know that I am
not going to win the big awards, because it is harder for smaller agen-
cies to win the big accounts with potential for ground-breaking, crea-
tive work. I know they have bigger budgets, more exciting travel and
they are winning the big accounts and awards. In that way, of course,
it can be viewed almost like a consolation price. It can seem as if we
give up, but on the other hand, we are creating something that we view
as better, something that works for us. It’s a personal choice, it’s about
how you define success and happiness and whether it is the competi-
tive Super Bowl spot you aspire to create or something else …

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

How can the agencies make it easier for women to stay if that is what they want to do?

I believe there needs to be an integration of what women can bring to
the table and what men can bring. In general terms I think women
tend to contribute more to a nourishing environment where creativity
flourishes, whereas men tend to be more competitive. Either on their
own is no good, the ideal is a balance where you stay creative and com-
petitive, but in a nourishing way, not driven by fear.

How did you first get the idea for The 3% Conference?

I was having lunch with Shelli Strand who was a colleague of mine at
Anderson Lembke, now Principal and Founder of Strand Marketing.
I was telling her about an article from TIME Magazine. The title was
Are you irreplaceable? It talked about the fact that at a small business the
clients want you, the owner. It means you are not building any equity;
when you retire, the business is no more. I was telling her about that
and even though I felt I was being successful in my career, I wasn’t
building anything of long-term value. Also, at the time I was thinking
about the industry and the lack of women in it, and she leaned forward
and said: “That is your legacy. That is where you can make a difference
that can outlive you.”
  Around the same time, I gave a speech at The 140 Conference1. It
travels all over the world and the idea is that you get ten minutes on
stage. I talked about social media and how it has changed the indus-
try. I talked about how women become more knowledgeable through
the real-time web; I talked about women’s economics and if you keep
your ear to the ground, you can really gain insight about how female
consumers think by listening in places like Twitter. At the end, I added
a final slide in my presentation and I said that The 3% Conference is
going to happen in October 2011, based on the statistics that only 3%
of creative directors in the US are women. I wanted to see what the
reaction would be and people really started to tune in. It turned out
to take longer to organize the event and I felt a bit embarrassed that it
in fact took another year of work and thoughtfulness, but anyway, that
was the genesis of the conference.

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Kat Gordon

Organizing the conference was a little bit more challenging than I had
expected when it came to sponsors. After all, it is hard to sell some-
thing that doesn’t exist! But I never doubted that women would want
to come. I did a survey of 50 women creative directors and I got a tre-
mendous response to what subjects would be interesting; that’s when I
knew I had a green light. Then the 4As sponsored me very generously.
I managed to raise more through other sponsors and then the ticket
sales covered the rest.
  It was not at all difficult to get women speakers; I actually had to say
no to so many people because I only had certain slots available during
the day. I had sticky notes over a wall and subject matters and I had to
puzzle them together. I didn’t really want to be on stage myself, but I
knew I wanted to moderate the panel with Tom Jordan. The reason is
that his book Re-render the Gender 2 was revolutionary for me. I realized
there was another person out there whistleblowing these issues and he
was a guy.

What was your aim and ambition with the conference?

A lot of different things; primarily to name the elephant in the room,
just say that this issue warrants an event, it is not a little nuisance, it’s a
huge business issue. I wanted to name it and have it take up space and
weight. I also wanted to create and facilitate a community amongst the
3% so that they could more easily find and get to know each other. Alone
we tend to minimize the challenges; when we get together, we strengthen
each other. We empower each other with our similar experiences.
  Ultimately, of course, I want to change that figure and work out ways
to rewrite the paradigm so that it stops – those were my main goals.
I absolutely feel that we delivered on the first two – the other one will
happen, but it will take time.

What has to change and how long will it take?

The days of three-martini lunches are gone. Clients have smaller bud-
gets and are more demanding. There is a culture of fear developing,
where people are afraid of taking risks. This means great work is not

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

being produced. There is a risk that the climate becomes too antagonis-
tic between agency and client. There needs to be a change on the client
side on how and what they demand from agencies. There needs to be a
change in how agencies get compensated or how you work with retainers.
The advertising industry has to answer to reality, yet push for bravery and
creativity. We have to do this by nurturing a creative environment where
fear is not the driving force. It will take time because it requires another
setup, another norm than the current one. It requires women and men in
collaboration, because they can bring different things to the table.

What is your plan for the future of The 3% Conference?

I see it as an ongoing movement that cannot stop. But I do not own it,
I encourage other people to latch on, take it, build it, grow it. We cannot
stop this, we must not stop it. There is after all a tendency in the in-
dustry to not want to speak up and complain. In 2011, at Cannes,
there was a panel with Martha Stewart and a senior woman from
Weber Shandwick who responded with surprise, questioning “Is it really
only 3%?” Then there was an article, which I can recommend - Beyond
Mad Men: Some Not-so-Angry Women3.
  I resent women who deny or minimize this issue. It shows how woe-
fully out of touch they are from a place of extreme privilege. It’s like
when wealthy people say: “Oh, I didn’t realize there are people who
are hungry”. Even if you haven’t had a very overt experience, it feels al-
most irresponsible to deny or minimize the issue. I am convinced that
The 3% Conference will help address the challenges women still face
in the advertising industry, creating an awareness as well as a sense of
need for change. And I am absolutely convinced that the conference
will change its name for the better, maybe already next year!

1) The 140 Conference (#140conf) is an annual conference founded by Jeff Pulver, gathering
leaders in the tech industry worldwide. Speakers get 10 to 20 minutes to discuss Twitter and
the real-time Internet and how Twitter influences the world and various industries. 
2) Thomas J. Jordan, 2009, Re-render the Gender: Why the vast majority of advertising is not
connecting with women - and what we can do about it, BookSurge Publishing.
3)Media Daily News, Beyond Mad Men: Some Not-so-Angry Women, 2011, Tuesday, June 21.

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Kat Gordon

Without doubt Kat Gordon is one of the most successful women I
know in advertising. She is experienced, eloquent and has identified
an interesting niche in communication, proceeding to build a success-
ful, profitable business upon it at the same time as she is nourishing
a creative, humane working environment which enables you to have
a rich life outside of work, too. Well done! And, at the same time,
she has the energy, courage and drive not to just build a working world
for herself and her colleagues, but she has taken on the elephant, the
big issue, and is empowering and inspiring women in advertising all
over the world.
  We have to stop measuring success by one conventional norm, which
tends to be the male norm. Women who start their own agencies or
aspire to other merits than advertising awards are smart, unconventional,
brave, creative, business-minded and independent. Kat Gordon cer-
tainly is all of that. Thank you, Kat.

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One of the great advantages of being part of the Ogilvy network is that you are
constantly being introduced to great, friendly colleagues all over the world.
That was the case when I told Mike Welsford, Global Brand Director of the
Ogilvy & Mather Group, about my book. He was very excited, but also said:
“You cannot write this book without having Nunu in it!”
  And so I was introduced to yet another lovely member of the family:
Nunu Ntshingila-Njeke.

It didn’t take me long to understand that Nunu Ntshingila-Njeke
is extremely appreciated both for her personality and also for her
career achievements. Everyone I talked to, everything I read about her
described her as business savvy and equally renowned for her gentle
and compassionate nature. It is said that “her natural empathy has
won her the hearts and admiration of staff and colleagues alike”.1

Nunu first joined Ogilvy’s trainee program in 1988 as a trainee account
manager and has worked her way up the ladder ever since.

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

Where you determined to make it in advertising already at an early age?

I never dreamed about being in advertising, I definitely just happened
to stumble across it. I left South Africa to study at university in Swazi-
land, and when I had my degree in politics and sociology I was all set
to find a job, preferably working for the UN or a global organisation.
But at this time, there was apartheid and also NGOs didn’t really ex-
ist. So, when after six months I still hadn’t landed the job I wanted, I
ended up thinking to myself that I would pretty much take on any job
I could find. I then heard about a trainee program offered at Ogilvy in
Johannesburg. There was a graduate training program with an intern-
ship that paid a nominal amount of money during a year. The pro-
gram was structured so that one could get a good insight into different
parts of the agency, by moving around between different departments.
After the internship was finished, I was employed as an account execu-
tive – I was in advertising!
  My first job assignment was to work with the Unilever brand Omo,
a washing detergent. The campaign was all based on testimonials and
my job was to read through thousands of letters with consumer laun-
dry stories about getting stains out and your clothes clean. As many
of the letters were written in Zulu, a vernacular language, and the
rest of the team was white, I was brought into read the stories and see
what would resonate with the black market. Already then I realised the
value of understanding and true insights. That was my first project and
then gradually I got promoted.

Now, over two decades have passed and Nunu has received several of the
industry’s highest honours. In 2003, she was named a finalist in the Busi-
nesswoman of the Year Award. In 2004, she again attained finalist status
in the Shoprite Checkers/SABC Woman of the Year Award, and was also
named Financial Mail’s Advertising Leader of the Year. In 2005, she won
the coveted prize of Business Personality of the Year at the Top Women
in Business and Government Awards. In early 2011, Nunu was appointed
to the Ogilvy & Mather board, where she joined 30 of the world’s top ad-
vertising and marketing professionals as the unique representative from

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

Africa. In 2012, Nunu took on the role of Chairman of the Ogilvy Group
in South Africa. And in 2012, Nunu also earned her second Lifetime
Achievement Award at the AdFocus Awards.

Was there an equal representation of women and men in advertising then
and is there now?

No, it was a male-dominated business then and it still is today, although
of course it has developed a lot in the 25 years that I have been around!
  When I started there were some account women, but none in the
creative department and no one in management. The situation has
changed a great deal, but it can still get better for women. There are
great women in account management and strategy, but it is still dif-
ficult to find women in the creative space. I think there is only one
woman executive creative director in this country and probably only
two or three CEOs who are women.

Why is it important to change this and how will it change the outcome of the
creative work when there are more female creatives?

It is extremely important to find a balance. If we don’t we will not be
able to produce creative work that resonates with our consumers, who
are women and men. With more women in the creative departments, I
believe we would see fewer one-dimensional and stereotypical represen-
tations of women. Yes, the creative work would definitely be different,
more diverse and a lot more representative of the real world out there.

Why aren’t there more women at South African agencies today?

Women often leave to have children and don’t come back, whereas men
stay and proceed to management levels. This has to change. We have to find
ways of creating work environments that are conducive to women as well.
  It is a tough and demanding industry to work in and when I first en-
tered it wasn’t really that friendly, neither to women nor to black peo-
ple. We have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves. So when I first
started, I had two challenges to manage and I could see a lot of people
leaving the industry because of these challenges. The way I handled

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Nunu Ntshingila-Njeke

it throughout the years was I learned to cope and decided that I was
fortunate to be in an interesting situation, where I decided to apply
myself and give it my all. I knew that I was equally competent as the
guys and my white colleagues, and I just decided I could do it too.

In what way has being a woman been an advantage?

I have never seen my womanhood come in the way or be a problem; I
have been given opportunities and I have taken them on.
  I think in general women have a level of empathy that I don’t think
I would have had as a male. Empathy and also intuition are gifts when
it comes to understanding human behaviour, what drives people, what
their dreams and desires are all about. If you are a woman in this in-
dustry, you must not think that you have to behave like the men, you
can be a professional as a woman. I benefited from looking at a role
model like Shelly Lazarus. Her successful career didn’t stop her from
being a mother, nor did it stop her from being like a mother in her
profession: intuitive, caring and empathetic.

How have you been able to stay on for so long and succeed so well?

I think there are two things. At a skill level, my training at university
as a sociologist has helped me a great deal to understand human be-
haviour. My interest in and my understanding of human nature, what
makes people tick, has inspired me enormously. It means I understand
drivers and barriers, and insights come easy to me.
  The other thing is tenacity. This industry requires a huge amount of
tenacity and I have it. Because advertising is a bumpy road; you succeed
and then you are disappointed, you win clients and you lose clients. You
have to have the tenacity to stay in there and always look forward.
  Actually, I might say there’s a third thing that has kept me in advertis-
ing. My work has enabled me to contribute to the development of my
beautiful country. I have really enjoyed influencing how our country is
evolving and I always believe that in some of the campaigns that I have
loved working with and that have excited me, I have also been able to
help shape our country, for example through the campaigns and work

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Nunu Ntshingila-Njeke

we have done for South Africa Tourism, rebranding the country in an
international way, beyond the political side. This work has been enor-
mously gratifying, very powerful and fulfilling.
  I also enjoy the work we do for South Africa Breweries and our do-
mestic beer, Castle. The work we have done talks to the heart and
shows how we are evolving. We have won quite a few awards for ef-
fective and creative work, and it is of course lovely to be awarded as a
country and fly the South African flag.
  In my free time, I also sit on other boards, currently for example at
the country’s biggest logistics company. I sit on boards where I feel I
can add value to the country.

During Nunu’s years at Ogilvy, the agency has produced effective and
award-winning work for South Africa’s biggest and most well-recognised
brands, including DSTV, SABMiller, KFC, Cadbury, BP, Volkswagen
and Coca-Cola. Also, the agency enjoys some of the most long-term
and successful client partnerships in the industry. In 2011, the agency
celebrated 50 years with SAB and 32 with Volkswagen.

You are known for your long-lasting client partnerships. What is the secret?

Well, first of all we are a value-driven agency. Values are always about
being brand-centric, keeping the brand at the centre of our conver-
sation, always at the centre. We move and liberate brands by making
them a lot more valuable. I have never made decisions that are expedi-
ent for Ogilvy, rather than the client; the client comes first.
  Long-lasting relationships require that you enter with a genuine inter-
est. It is when you genuinely care, when people know that you care about
them and their brand, that you have what it takes to build trust and loyalty.
David Ogilvy used to say: “It is not how much you know, it is how much
you care.” and it really is true. I want my clients to know that I care for
them and their business. They will their loyalty in return.

How can you offer support to a younger generation of women?

Later on in my career, I have found that a lot of women come to me

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

and ask for advice. I really enjoy more talent and I love helping them
succeed so that they develop well. Women mentorship is very impor-
tant, not least for black women.
  Ogilvy still has a trainee program, although more developed than
when I first started. It is excellent to be able to offer graduate interns the
opportunity to develop skills in the right way within the corporate world.

What would your advice be to young women entering the ad industry today?
Well, first and foremost I would be honest and say that it is not an easy
industry to work in. You have to be really sure that this is what you
want, but then on the other hand, once you are in it and succeed, it is
very rewarding.
  I would say to young women to fight for a work environment that is
conducive to women as well, a work environment which allows for a
balanced lifestyle.
  Sometimes it might seem easier to walk away and create a space that
works for you somewhere else, but try instead to bring yourself into
your job, be true to yourself and who you are and people will respond.

When Nunu earned her second Lifetime Achievement Award in 2012,
as a tribute to her monumental contribution to the advertising industry,
AdFocus editor David Furlonger praised her contribution by writing: 
“Her credentials as a businesswoman and leader are impeccable. On
her watch, Ogilvy & Mather SA continued its growth as the country’s
most diversified and arguably the biggest communications company.”2
  In her acceptance speech, Nunu Ntshingila-Njeke credited her col-
leagues and Ogilvy by saying: “This award belongs to you. I am humbled
to be recognised in such a way at this point of my life.”

Professional and humble, all the way.

1) Ogilvy.com
2)David Furlonger in the 2012 Financial Mail annual publication, South Africa.

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Nunu Ntshingila-Njeke

Talking to Nunu gave me two very powerful insights and reminded
me how important it is for all of us to understand other perspectives,
far from our own context.
  First of all, Nunu has had two challenges in her career. When she first
entered the advertising industry, it wasn’t really that friendly, neither
to women nor to black people. She decided to give it her all because
deep down she knew that she was equally competent as the guys and her
white colleagues. I am so pleased she didn’t give up; it really shows her
tenacity and makes her such an inspiring role model for many young
women who can follow in her path. If you can see it, you can be it.
  Secondly, I find her perspective on the role of advertising very en-
couraging. She talks about how her work has enabled her and the
agency to contribute to the development of her country; influencing
how South Africa is evolving. I love that view, a view beyond advertising
as such, beyond award shows; the belief that what you do is actually
powerful in a larger context and that it can bring positive change.
  Here’s to you, Nunu, to your tenacity and to your passion!

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When I first started talking to people, asking who they would like to read
about in my book, the same name kept popping up again and again.
Susan Hoffman, Executive Creative Director at Wieden+Kennedy in
Portland, Oregon. Not surprisingly she was already on my list. She had
impressed me both through her creative work, for example for Levi’s, but
also what I had heard about her way of working, her way of being. Now it
was just a question of hunting her down.

I was lucky. Susan Hoffman was one of the speakers at The 3% Con-
ference in San Francisco in September 2012 and I saw a golden oppor-
tunity to corner her there. Quite a lot of people had the same plan;
during the intermission a long line of people quickly formed, all want-
ing to speak to Susan. It was obvious that this is a woman who means a
lot to other women in the industry; a role model who is inspiring, fun
and encouraging. Her participation in the panel debate at the confer-
ence was also very appreciated. Susan is so low-key about herself and
very generous with sharing her experiences. One of the things I found
especially impressive about her contribution in San Francisco was her

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

willingness to also share failure. I think that is enormously important
when we speak about role models; understanding that no one is perfect,
not even the legends. I think it helps us believe in ourselves, it helps
us gain self-confidence.

Susan, how did you first come to think about working in advertising?
My mom said I wasn’t smart enough to be in advertising and that actu-
ally worked for me. I somehow needed the challenge of people not
believing in me; it gave me strength.
  So after high school, I took a course called Commercial Art at the
University of Arizona; it was so long ago it wasn’t even called advertis-
ing but that was my first introduction into this crazy career.
  My first job was at an obscure company called Peanut Butter Publish-
ing where I designed coupon ads for college notebooks. My career took
off later when I was hired as a junior art director at Pihas Schmidt
Westerdal in Portland. After that, I worked with Dan Wieden and David
Kennedy at William Cain. They left to form Wieden+Kennedy so I went
to Chiat\Day – Seattle. Two years later I was hired at W+K as employee
No. 8. That was 29 years ago …

What is the reason you stayed on so long?
I wanted to stay in Portland. W+K gave me the opportunity to work and
advance at the best creative agency in the world. Why would anyone
want to leave this gig?

Have you had female mentors?
I haven’t had female mentors; Dan and David were my mentors. I loved
working for these guys, they were normal. Not out to brag to the world
but wanting to create provocative advertising that meant something to
the consumer. We had a lot of fun! And being a female at the agency
hasn’t been a problem; Dan and David have been super supportive.
My life would not have been the same without them.

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Susan Hoffman

What is your view on men versus women in advertising?
When I started in advertising there were very few women in the busi-
ness. It’s slowly changing but there’s definitely an imbalance, it’s a big
issue for the industry. But the good thing for me is I haven’t felt too
much of this inequality at W+K.

Why do you think it is that so few women become partners or creative directors
or start their own agencies compared to men?

The ad business is tough and you need to be tough. You give up per-
sonal and family time and not a lot of women are willing to do this. I
seemed to juggle it OK, but not without the help of a partner who
didn’t have as demanding a job. Also, I really like to work and I have
a crazy kind of drive. I also lucked into an agency where work was fun,
challenging and where creativity is our middle name.
  But hopefully things are getting better for woman. There seem to
be more women coming up through the ranks. It remains to be seen
how many advance to a creative director position and into partner
roles, but with people becoming more aware of the imbalance, there
will be change.

What do you think are the reasons you have been so successful? Apart from talent -
do you have advice to give young women that can help them in their career?

My advice to women is be prepared to work hard – long hours. You
have to push yourself. And you have to be tough, but in the right way.
Fight for what you believe in, don’t be bitchy and certainly don’t cry.
Be prepared to stand up for your ideas. And most importantly make
sure you love it.

What inspired you to participate in The 3% Conference? What do you think is
the benefit of such a conference, and for whom?

When The 3% Conference asked me to participate, it seemed like a
good platform to start a dialogue on the gender imbalance in our in-
dustry. We need conferences like this to open up the dialogue, but it’s
extremely important to have a 50/50 gender balance in the audience.

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Susan Hoffman

Otherwise we are talking to ourselves. I thought it was interesting that
the few men who spoke at the conference all said their moms were a
huge influence in their lives while growing up. Go moms!

What do you think was your most important contribution on that day?

Telling my story of how I got into advertising seemed to resonate.
When you are successful, people think it was easy and when they hear
it wasn’t, there’s hope for everyone.

What sacrifices have you had to make?

I’ve made a lot of sacrifices: my family at times; they weren’t abandoned
and they aren’t in therapy – yet! There were times when I had to go
back and forth between Portland and Amsterdam to run that office.
I commuted for about a year, away for long stretches, that’s difficult
with teenage boys at home. It wasn’t easy on them or me.

The greatest failure or challenge and how did you navigate that?

My biggest failure was opening our London office in 1998. I opened
the Amsterdam office in ’92 and that went very well. In hindsight we
were naive to think that an American woman who had experience only
in smaller markets, Portland and Amsterdam, could be successful in
one of the most challenging advertising cities in the world. It didn’t
work out and even if Dan Wieden wouldn’t agree with this statement,
I got fired from that office.
  There were a lot of lessons I learned from this experience and it
took me a long time to prove myself capable of leading an office again.
I felt a black mark over me for a long time, and I went through eight
years of tough times emotionally. They say you learn from your mis-
takes … I learned that I will probably never go back and run the London
office again! (laughing)

Will things change, how and when? And will the creative change if more wom-
en are represented in creative departments?

I’m not sure how and when things will change but they will. There is

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising
much more awareness of the imbalance and not just in advertising, but
in many fields. And the creative outcome will change because women
add a whole new dimension to a company; they add another point of
view, they work differently and challenge in other ways.
  I think I bring humor and more openness to work. They get a differ-
ence of opinion from me than from my male counterparts and a kind of
nuttiness, too, which maybe makes me different from the guys. Go girls!

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Susan Hoffman

I was really happy to find that the legend Susan Hoffman was
so easygoing, unpretentious and willing to share her failures and
experiences so generously. I think the reason she has been and still
is so successful and liked is both because of her great creative work
and because of who she is as a person. And that makes me happy;
that fame and fortune do not require sharp elbows or kicking your
way up. I know Susan has also mentioned that she is by nature quite
shy, which can be encouraging for women who think you have to be
super assertive to do well in advertising.
  I am glad that she found such great mentors in Dan and David
at Wieden+Kennedy and that she specifically says that she likes
them because they were normal: “Not out to brag to the world but
wanting to create provocative advertising that meant something to
the consumer.”
  Less focus on ego and more focus on results I think generally
make for better advertising and definitely for more sympathetic people
and a nourishing working environment.

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When I first started writing this book, I was very intent on interviewing not
only senior advertising women, wisely looking back on their careers. It is my
absolute belief that younger women in the industry also have stories, insights
and good advice to share. One of them is Nina Åkestam. At the age of 28,
she has already worked both as an account planner and as a copywriter
in Stockholm and in New York and is now a PhD Student at the Department
of Marketing and Strategy at the Stockholm School of Economics.

Nina and I meet for breakfast on the day that it decides to snow more
than ever in Stockholm; 50 cm in one day. We both turn up as snow-
men at the café, but as the conversation flows and the coffees and teas
are being brought to our table, the temperature rises considerably. Nina
is an opinionated and well-spoken woman who has obviously thought
a great deal about both advertising and equality.

What made you decide to become a copywriter?

It is not surprising that I have a writing career. I learned to read and
write at the age of four; I ate books for breakfast and I loved studying

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

and learning at school. I used to write stories, poems and lyrics for
hours every day, and probably reckoned I would be an author, the
only writing profession I really knew of (which is strange as my father
is a copywriter. I never really thought that was something I could do).
I kept writing continuously until I was about 14, I guess. Then it was
as if reality knocked on my door, saying that I wasn’t good enough at
writing, it wasn’t something I could do. That was despite the fact that
my teachers were really encouraging. Perhaps it was more the fact that
I was pretty much good at everything at school, so I felt I could do any-
thing, so why spend so much time focusing on writing? I considered
being a psychologist and between 1998 and 2006 I didn’t write at all,
other than at school, but never in my free time.
  I have memories of the world crashing in 1991, when I was seven. I
remember friends’ parents losing their jobs and it was scary. I think it
is something I have always carried with me; that it is hard to get a job
and you should be grateful if you have one. Then a new crash came
when I was at college and I think that’s when I decided I needed a
good, solid education, so I applied to the Stockholm School of Eco-
nomics and was accepted. I hated it! It didn’t suit me at all; I came
from a smaller school straight into a big establishment where most
of the students had known for a lifetime that they would study there,
many because their parents had. Nowadays, I think the school is much
more multi-faceted, but at the time I felt quite estranged.
  There were as many female as male students, but the culture was
98% male and my response to that was to become one of them; I went
straight into the enemy’s camp and became quite cocky. Halfway through
I took a sabbatical; I went to Paris and studied French and I spent six
months as a ski bum. And I started writing again.
  I thought a lot about what I wanted to do and I knew I didn’t want a
suit job, a job at a bank. All the same, I went back to study business, it’s
as if it didn’t occur to me that I could drop out. In retrospect, I’m so glad
I did continue my studies because the two final years were great; I dis-
covered marketing and advertising and I’m not sure I would if I hadn’t
gone back to studying.

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Nina Åkestam

During my years studying business, I was pretty sceptical of the idea of
feminism and I definitely didn’t view myself as a feminist. Now I regret
that I wasn’t more susceptible to the lectures we had on this subject,
for example with, Anna Wahl1. Looking back, I think I was a little naive
and maybe too inexperienced to understand – and I should really re-
read her stuff as real life after school happened to show me a lot of
what she talked about.

In the summer of 2006, I got a summer job in advertising at the agency
Åkestam Holst in Stockholm. I wrote all their entries for a Swedish
award show 100Wattaren, sort of like the Effies, which no one at the
agency wanted to deal with. It suited me fine as I had studied a lot of
marketing research. I started my blog that summer, to keep me busy. I
also felt that what the writers at the agency, who were among the best
in Sweden at the time and still are, were doing wasn’t impossible. So
I thought: Maybe it’s worth a try after all? Maybe I can write after all?
  I kept writing the blog with a focus on advertising. During my last
year of studies I felt I learned so much that I wanted to share and
reflect upon. During my last autumn term I did an internship at the
agency Garbergs in Stockholm and then I landed a job there; I was
extremely lucky. It just happened.
  I really enjoyed the agency and my colleagues but I was actually dis-
appointed with some of the clients. Coming out of school, I had these
totally unrealistic expectations of what working life would be like. I
wanted everyone to blow me away with their intelligence. I thought
they would all be super smart and rational and great decision makers,
real VIPs for the future of Sweden.
  Anyway, I started off as an account planner, which after all is what I
studied for and had done my internship as. There were really good copy-
writers at the agency, but no account planners, so I thought, right, here
is an opportunity to become indispensable; if I don’t do this, no one will.
  My breakthrough was a pitch for a big electricity company. I knew
I had contributed well, so it was great to win the pitch and feel that
my hard work had paid off. I pretty much worked with all the clients

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Mad Women – A Herstory of Advertising

as there weren’t any other account planners, but of course that didn’t
work in the long run.

In 2008, my teachers at the Stockholm School of Economics gave me
a call to see if I wanted to come back and do research. I remember
telling myself that if we won Eurobest Young Creatives I would stay in
advertising, otherwise I would go into research. And we won!
  It was weird that year. I had been working for two years and there
I was, up on stage at Eurobest three times, I think, to collect gold. In
retrospect I find that awesome, but at the time it just felt natural. That
says something about the expectations I had for myself, and believed
other people had for me. That was the time I asked at the agency if I
could try out as a copywriter instead. And I did, surrounded as it were
by great creatives at the agency; 50/50 women and men. At all levels,
junior as well as senior, which was quite unusual at the time.
  The discussion would come up, why there weren’t any women in the
management team or as partners, at an agency with so many strong
women? Lotta Lundgren had just left before I started, but there were
Lotta Mårlind and Malin von Werder, for example. We raised the ques-
tion, there wasn’t more to it and soon enough Maria Olofsson, the
CFO, was made partner and Cilla Beckeström, an account manager,
and I joined the management team. I think everyone tends to be stuck
in traditional structures and a fixed view of what type of person should
be in the management team, but it needn’t be that way. It’s a question
of having more than one perspective.
  Around this time I started to become aware of inequalities and
gender, discovering that Anna Wahl had been right. I saw how clearly
there was an imbalance. It was not the case that the smartest people
were in power: there were so many other factors that mattered: politics,
friendships, favours. This is when and why I became a feminist. I was
getting involved and reflected a lot on how one could organise and
structure differently, both internally and externally. This is also when
I started blogging about these issues.

88