New Summary Report - 27 October 2014

New Summary Report - 27 October 2014

1. Do you run races for mixed fleet trailable yachts and sports boats?

Yes 42.9%

No 57.1%

Yes 42.9% 18
No 57.1% 24
42
Total

2. Do you use the Yachting Australia provided Class Base Handicap (CBH) list for scoring your races in these
mixed fleet trailable yacht and sports boat events?

Yes 41.2%

No 58.8%

Yes 41.2% 7
No 58.8% 10
17
Total

3. What alternative handicapping system do you use for these trailable yacht and sports boat events, and why?

Count Response
1 Our club relies on the data provided by TopYacht software.
1 PHS
1 Performance handicaps as most of the fleet don't have a CBH(but they have applied for one.)
1 Phs
1 SMS
1 SMS because I am suspicious of class based handicaps and not all the boats are one-design.
1 SMS which is just as biased at the moment as the CBH of old was!
1 Timed, first in time penalty and so on. To get everyone finishing together
1 cbh system used by our club for many years which works. the cbh buy the tssba is unfair.
1 SMS for sports boats and PHS for trailerables. Because CBH is not up to date and subject to too many variables and non

declaration by owners. A measured system or performance system are the only ways to go.

4. How would you rate the fairness of the Class Based Handicaps that Yachting Australia provides?

Satisfied 28.6%

Dissatisfied 42.9%

Neutral 28.6%

Statistics

Very Dissatisfied 0.0% 0 Sum 20.0
Dissatisfied 42.9%
Neutral 28.6% 3 Average 2.9
Satisfied 28.6%
Very Satisfied 0.0% 2 StdDev 0.8

2 Max 4.0

0

Total 7

5. Please provide an explanation to how you rated your satisfaction level.

Count Response

1 Ratings do not seem to reflect various design performances and seem to be based on old data.

1 Should allow a standard correction factor to CBH for no spinnaker entries

1 Wind conditions affect these handicaps as most of our races are under 10 knots.

1 The handicaps are pretty good. Not great, and there are some sportsboats who get a harder whack than they deserve. Very
few boats are sailed to their potential, plenty of complaining from mediocre sailors

1 It is impossible to come up with the perfect one rating for all conditions most boats perform different in different conditions.

1 Neutral as our club has histoically not set racing courses to a 'target time' nor recorded GPS positions so it's somewhat difficult
to review a boats performance in those circumstances. This season we'll be establishing target time and using gps to set and
record races.

1 Based on the fastest CBH across Australia it fails to take into account local conditions and the variety of courses sailed

6. Do you run races for mixed fleet off the beach dinghies, multihulls and sailboards?

No 40.5%

Yes 59.5%

Yes 59.5% 25
No 40.5% 17
42
Total

7. Do you use the Yachting Victoria provided Yardstick for scoring your races in these mixed fleet off the beach
dinghy, multihull and sailboard events?

No 12.5%

Yes 87.5% Yes 87.5%
No 12.5%
21
Total 3
24

8. What alternative handicapping system do you use for these mixed fleet off the beach dinghy, multihull and
sailboard events, and why?

Count Response

1 Phs

1 portsmith

1 TopYacht again. Only a small club. Handicapping, being the dark art that it is is a constant topic of debate and query as I'm
sure it is many clubs. In truth, I believe that there are not enough committee members who truly understand the
handicapping/yardstick principles or practice and aren't prepared to adopt any 'new' ideas on the matter.

9. How would you rate the fairness of the Yardstick that Yachting Victoria provides?

Very Satisfied 9.5% Very Dissatisfied 4.8%

Dissatisfied 19.1%

Satisfied 33.3%

Neutral 33.3%

Very Dissatisfied 4.8% Statistics 68.0
Dissatisfied 19.1% 1 Sum 3.2
Neutral 33.3% 4 Average 1.0
Satisfied 33.3% 7 StdDev 5.0
Very Satisfied 9.5% 7 Max
2
Total 21

10. Please provide an explanation to how you rated your satisfaction level.

Count Response
1 Best we have without getting too complicated.
1 For the various types of sail craft we have competing the yardsticks appear to be quite accurate.
1 Rewards those that spend the most money
1 Same as above.

Count Response

1 Seems to be more historially correct and up to date

1 favours larger boats

1 it works

1 leans toward the multi hulls

1 times taken and personal experience with race finish time collaboration

1 They are in desprate need of an overhaul some classes have developed and they still have a 20year old yardstick. Maybe
there needs to be a push for an update.

1 Seems to handicap different classes and hull constructions "fairly". That is, the handicapping generates comparable and largely
predictable results within and and between classes, whilst allowing combined helm-crew skills to generate the majority of the
difference between boats. Consistency is most obvious where comparable designs compete (eg, Mirrors, Pacers, 125s, and
NVs; or Hobies and Windrushes).

1 Seems to be maintained annually and gives reasonable results based on race times, given the known sailign abiltity of various
skippers/crews.

1 Strongly disagree with varied handicaps for the f18 class. a new hobie tiger with darren bundock and glenn ashby would still win
a world titles today. we don't have yardsticks for old lasers, so why have one for an older f18. the foiling moth yardstick seems
a little extreme with the bladerider at 63.5 and all others at 78. surely that can't be right. overall happy with the other class's and
its good to see the handicaps being looked after.

1 It is impossible to come up with the perfect one rating for all conditions most boats perform different in different conditions.

1 The advertised VYC yardstick's, while stating the obsolescence of many (most) classes figures is the only reasonable means
of handicapping a large mixed fleet regatta. The results of the regatta can almost be predicted at the briefing with weather input
to classes that have a very favourable figure as the class and there are many which have over the last 10 to 20 years
introduced larger and updated sails, carbon rigs, changed class rules of various descriptions with no change to the VYC
handicap.

1 Overal the ratings are good. We mainly have Catamarans and A Class Catamarans. There is some confusion as to which
rating to use for the A Class Catamarans. The wording is difficult to know which design fits in which catagory

1 Yardsticks skewed by top sailors sailing in certain classes(eg Lasers) giving them unrealistic yardsticks for the average sailor

1 It is a guide only conditions and courses influence the result more than anything else. ideally one would like to get all the
National Champions together in a variety of conditions to arrive at the yardstick. I think the VYA should run a regatta each year
with the best of the best to tweek the yardstick. Probably impractical so basically I think we've got a guide and individual clubs
can adjust yardsticks to suite. To me the problem arises when you go away to a mixed regatta in another place. Fortunately I
sail a sharpie and am mostly sailing against Sharpies so I don't have to worry.

1 I am the F18 measurer and the new yardsticks include the Hobie Tiger and the Capricorn. This is an issue because they do not
advise what model Tiger or Capricorn the rating is for. The Tiger had 3 different Mains, which were all very different yet they all
measured to F18 rules. So why have you split the Tiger separately but then not split the model of Tiger? If you are providing a
rating for these two models of F18, why aren't there ratings for the 100 other versions of F18? We would like the Tiger and
Capricorn ratings removed because an old boat is equally as quick as a new F18, as was the case at last years Nationals
when an old Capricorn from 2006 finished 5th. You just need to have good sailors on board to get good results and usually good
sailors only sail newer boats. If a new Tiger or Capricorn was built it would be just as quick as any other F18, they shouldn't
have their own yardstick. Another issue is the ratings shift too much when the boats get older and slower, which we've seen
with the introduction of the Tiger and Capricorn. Classes that don't keep up to date and aren't as modern don't attract the top
sailors. That means the results obtained to create the rating aren't accurate to what a new boat would be, so when a new boat
is made it doesn't accurately reflect the rating. The 14ft catamaran classes are the best example of this.

1 Our fleet is predominantly Impulse and Laser and there is feeling that the yardsticks are not correct and favour the Impulse

Count Response

1 Mounts Bay Sailing Club run an annual VYS invitational otb dinghy and cat team event "Three of a Kind" where the average
corrected time of the top three boats in each class team is compare to that of other teams in a "division". Seems to work well
when the VYS data is up to date and represent all boats competing.

Source Countries 97.6%

100

80

60

40

20 2.4%
0 Australia
New Zealand

Australia 97.6% 41
New Zealand 2.4% 1
42
Total

Source Cities 41.6%

100 17.2% 17.2%

80 3.5% Brisbane 3.5% 3.5% 3.5% Melbourne All Others

60 Auckland Coolangatta Gladesville Hobart

40

20

10.3%

0 Adelaide

Adelaide 10.3% 3
Auckland 3.5% 1
Brisbane 17.2% 5
Coolangatta 3.5% 1
Gladesville 3.5% 1
Hobart 3.5% 1
Melbourne 17.2% 5
Moonee Ponds 3.5% 1
Pakenham 3.5% 1
Perth 3.5% 1
Port Melbourne 3.5% 1
Surry Hills 3.5% 1
Sydney 24.1% 7
29
Total